[eagles123]

presume Matchpoints

---

any bid here

Thanks

Eagles

[Zelandakh]

If your style is to overcall 4 card suits, as is the case for several BBF posters, then this hand probably qualifies. It is not my way so I would pass.

[billw55]

Count me in. All conditions are right for a four card overcall: good hand, strong suit, all white at matchpoints.

[mcphee]

Although I am good, nothing good happens when you have 3 little in openers bid suit. I will get another chance, partner may bid, maybe I'll get shut out, who knows. Would be more anxious to act if I held a 4th H, now 1S holds a lot more appeal to me.

[TylerE]

1st Choice: Pass 2nd Choice: Pass 3rd Choice: Pass

Don't like 1♠, even though I'm not opposed to 4 card overcalls at all. This is just sort of in that "uncanny valley" where you kinda want to bid again if partner makes some minimum noise, but you don't really have the values for it. Also ♥xxx is v. bad.

[StevenG]

Is double so bad? If you get a 2♦ reply, you're unlikely to get left in, and it's not necessarily disastrous at MPs if you are. Otherwise, if partner has anything, you may get to push them to 3♥ which looks defensible.

1♠ guarantees 5 cards for me, so it's not a choice. If I pass, I find it difficult to see how partner will find anything intelligent. Giving up the partscore battle doesn't usually go well with that sort of hand at MPs.

[ArtK78]

I would certainly bid 1♠. If the red suits were reversed I would double.

I am not going to stay out of the auction with a good hand and a strong 4 card spade suit.

[eagles123]

thx folks, happy to admit I was wrong here

This happened in a post-mortem teaching session.

I chose to X. My thought was I had 4 of the other major, a pretty strong hand and if P was to bid 2D then it was fairly likely to be a 5 card suit so it was worth the risk. But I can see with no votes so far it was the wrong action!

Thanks,

Eagles

[mycroft]

Eagles, partner sometimes bids 3♦...

(having said that, you have enough over 3♦ to look for 3NT. But probably not enough to play 4 of anything if partner doesn't have hearts stopped).

[Endymion77]

I bid 1♠

[neilkaz]

Endymion77, on 2013-September-13, 10:28, said:

I bid 1♠

Yes and WTP to be honest.

I suggest those with other ideas read Mike Lawrence's book "Overcalls".

1♠=10 Double=6 Pass=0

[gwnn]

Double for me! It's a style question, really. A 2-card minor is less of an issue for me than pass being super wide-ranged.

[PhilKing]

I would double as well. Second choice 1♠. Pass is not in the frame.

[mgoetze]

This is a clear double in the Intermediate/Advanced forum but I just can't bring myself to vote for it in the Novice/Beginner section, sorry.

[the hog]

1S is clear for me. You have an excellent suit and a good hand. Double would be my second choice. Pass is a very poor call.

[1eyedjack]

mgoetze, on 2013-September-14, 02:22, said:

This is a clear double in the Intermediate/Advanced forum but I just can't bring myself to vote for it in the Novice/Beginner section, sorry.

Ah. so what would it be in the Expert forum??

But seriously, if it is the right call in the I/A forum why would it make a difference in the N/B?

I may be missing something, but I sort of gather that there is nothing especially complicated about the hand. It is just down to whether you expect to lose more by promising a 3rd Diamond that you haven't got with a double or by suggesting longer Spades than you have with a 1S overcall. Presumably if partner bids 2D opposite the double you stand it and hope that he has 5 of them or that it is no great disaster if he only has 4. No strange artificial followups are in the frame.

I don't have a strong opinion about which is better. I only insist that it is within partner's expected parameters. But I am a bit surprised by the comment if only because beginners are taught that overcalling on a 4 card suit is a bit of a no-no. Has you said it was a clear double in the N/B section but 1S in the I/A I would at least have understood the sentiment without necessarily agreeing.

[wyman]

I would overcall 1S, but I'm not opposed to dbl. If I pass now, I've endplayed myself into passing if LHO bids 2H or 3H(wk) and it comes back to me, and that just feels wrong at pairs.

I sympathize with the NB/IA discussion here, but despite posting in NB, eagles is I. Plus I think telling a novice "look, we don't usually overcall 4 card suits, nor do we dbl with a doubleton in an unbid, but the conditions here are a perfect storm: we can make a cheap (1-level) overcall, we're overcalling a very chunky suit, we have a very good hand, we want a spade led or led back, and - perhaps most importantly - we rarely ever are checking out at the 2-level when opps have a fit, and passing now may really create a bidding problem for us on the next round," is totally fine.

I mean, I'm not totally convinced of how I should rate X, 1S, and P, but at least I can share the fundamentals (that I am fairly convinced are sound) that went into my decision, and those are valuable for a player of any skill level.

[mgoetze]

1eyedjack, on 2013-September-14, 04:27, said:

Ah. so what would it be in the Expert forum??

How would I know, do I look like an expert or something?

wyman, on 2013-September-14, 06:07, said:

Plus I think telling a novice "look, we don't usually overcall 4 card suits, nor do we dbl with a doubleton in an unbid, but the conditions here are a perfect storm: we can make a cheap (1-level) overcall, we're overcalling a very chunky suit, we have a very good hand, we want a spade led or led back, and - perhaps most importantly - we rarely ever are checking out at the 2-level when opps have a fit, and passing now may really create a bidding problem for us on the next round," is totally fine.

No doubt, except that what I would say is "I double with a doubleton in an unbid minor all the time, there's nothing wrong with it at all" and I'm not sure that is the right thing to teach beginners.

[PhilKing]

mgoetze, on 2013-September-14, 09:16, said:

"I double with a doubleton in an unbid minor all the time, there's nothing wrong with it at all" and I'm not sure that is the right thing to teach beginners.

It isn't, but when beginners improve, they ask about hands that do not conform to the basics they were taught. And in that case it is generally right to give the "real" answer.

[Vampyr]

StevenG, on 2013-September-13, 08:25, said:

1♠ guarantees 5 cards for me, so it's not a choice.

IMO, "guaranteeing" five cards does not necessarily mean that I have them, and does not mean that you shouldn't overcall if you think it's right. If partner is really rigid about this, there's always, "sorry, I had a diamond in with my spades".