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unbelievable sing off

#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-August-11, 18:18

108xx
AKx
KQX
Kxx


1NT-2 (transfer)
2-3 (natural)
3-4NT (keycard blackwood)
5-5 (1 keycard)

Would you even think on bidding on? if there is a missunderstanding on the bidding, it must be on the 5 level since the others are really the only way partner plays them with his 5 regular partners.
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2013-August-11, 20:54

Pass is obvious. How can you bid on in this sequence if you want to continue playing with this partner?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#3 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-August-11, 22:30

How sure am I that I'm playing 3041 ?

Realising I've shown zero not one without partner telling me this by an explanation is the only possible reason for bidding on.
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#4 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 00:16

Why can't you be off two Aces? Even if you are off only an Ace and K, the King can be offsides. I pass!
"It's not enough to win the tricks that belong to you. Try also for some that belong to the opponents."

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#5 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 02:43

View Postchasetb, on 2013-August-12, 00:16, said:

Why can't you be off two Aces? Even if you are off only an Ace and K, the King can be offsides. I pass!

I am not claiming that I would bid over 5, but I would certainly think. I do not subscribe to the notion that there is nothing to think about when partner employs RKB.
My guess is that 5 was not bid in tempo.
However, how can partner be off two keycards?
How can a Bridge player past the beginner stage bid 4NT missing 3 keycards and KQ in in his side suit?
Even if he holds

AQJxxxx
x
AJTx
x

he should bid 4 or make a control bid, not 4NT. He has no safety at the five level. He does not know what to do opposite 2 keycards either.
And that is the best I can come up with, other constructions are even more ridiculous.

Rainer Herrmann
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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 03:04

Maybe the king of diamonds should count as a keycard here.
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#7 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 03:46

View Posthelene_t, on 2013-August-12, 03:04, said:

Maybe the king of diamonds should count as a keycard here.

The way I play it does.

Rainer Herrmann
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#8 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 03:46

For a sing off, I would generally choose a power ballad of some sort.
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#9 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 06:54

Sure, maybe partner has bid incorrectly. That doesn't mean that I should too.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
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#10 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 09:43

Partner should be shot for that leap from 3S to 4NT, unless ALL he cares about is how many keys I have and is then able to place the contract. Of course we pass now.
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#11 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 13:16

I didn't expect a question like this from an international. An obvious "NO WTP"
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#12 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 16:09

I have bid on in this situation just once, against Grant Baze.

I held Jxxxx KJ10xxxxx void void.

The auction:

1 1
2! 3
4N 5D (03)
5 ?

5 was bid very slowly.'

I raised to slam.

RHO was visibly and audibly upset, muttering that where he came from I'd be barred...then demanding to know if I had a void...'you'd better have a void'......

I later explained that we definitely had to improve our notes on keycard: we had no way to show no keycards but 2 working voids :D

On the given hand, one has to pass. If we missed slam, partner screwed up. He shouldn't be asking for keycards unless he knows where to place the contract. Only bad players use keycard to show slam interest. Good players use it to determine the level of the contract. He's determined it is the 5-level.

Now, if he is one of the 89.765% of the bridge population who are so infatuated with keycard that he can't be trusted then, provided he signed off in tempo, I'd bid on.

Is my post internally inconsistent? Not really: I generally play almost exclusively with members of the 10.235% who understand keycard bidding.

Warning: as Justin recently posted, some 92% of statistics are just made up (and I'm too lazy to look up the figure he used...so just trust me on this one)
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#13 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 17:18

View PostPhilKing, on 2013-August-12, 03:46, said:

For a sing off, I would generally choose a power ballad of some sort.


pfft, you're too old man, BATTLE RAP



/very bad language warning in this video ldo


As far as the hand, it's pretty unbelievable but maybe partner chose to gamble with KQJxxx x AJTxx x or something. All I know is he asked for keycards and I answered so I don't have a decision.
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#14 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 17:49

View PostFluffy, on 2013-August-11, 18:18, said:

108xx
AKx
KQX
Kxx


1NT-2 (transfer)
2-3 (natural)
3-4NT (keycard blackwood)
5-5 (1 keycard)


side-issue
Zelandakh and I have posted structures whereby you can show the double-fit in this type of auction.

Here is mine:
1NT - 2H!
2S - 3D ( natural )
??
3S = 3 cd support, but no fit
3H! = ( cheapest new suit ) support* but only 2 cds
3NT = support neither
4D = support both
Now 4H! by Responder could be 6 ace RKC .

EDIT: Ideally, the fit should be at least 4 cd support, but I fudged with K Q x support. surely Responder here has a 5 cd suit headed by the Ace .
Don Stenmark
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#15 User is online   cherdano 

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Posted 2013-August-12, 22:07

View Postrhm, on 2013-August-12, 02:43, said:

And that is the best I can come up with, other constructions are even more ridiculous.

But any construction where we do have slam is also ridiculous.
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#16 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2013-August-17, 18:54

I assume you are building up to the point where you bid on and then you and your partner have a sing off in order to decide who is to blame for the ensuing disaster?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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