[Vampyr]

Our methods aren't all they could be, but we did reach 6♠ on the following layout. I am interested in how others with possibly better methods would get there.

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West dealer, teams if it matters.

[32519]

Nice problem. This thread is quite obviously directly linked to your other thread where you asked is 3♠ forcing. East cannot use 5♣ as Voidwood as ♣ had already been bid twice. My guess is this is what actually happened at the table:

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Did you make 6? Where was the ♦K and how did the ♠ break?

[Vampyr]

No, our auction was as follows:

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2NT was not forcing, and yes the there is a question as to whether 3♠ was forcing. Whether the contract made is immaterial; it was a good slam.

[trevahound]

This is an easier auction with some form of xyx. Presuming str NT, then 1♣ - 1♠ // 1nt - 3♥ (natural, GF, slammish+)// 3♠ - and your off, any reasonable continuations will get you there...

Without that tool, the auction is essentially identical, though, I think? Or do people play 3♥ as invitational or something? There has to be some way to force with both M's.

[SteveMoe]

Vampyr, on 2013-July-25, 12:36, said:

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West dealer, teams if it matters.

Would expect this or similar:

5♣ EKB

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Am used to opening 1♦ when 4=5 or 5=4.
Therefore 3♣ promises 5♣ cards, but not 5♦cards.
3♥ rebid shows powerful 2-suiter.
If you don't play EKB, then 5♣ can be a self-splinter.

[mike777]

Vampyr, on 2013-July-25, 13:20, said:

No, our auction was as follows:

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2NT was not forcing, and yes the there is a question as to whether 3♠ was forcing. Whether the contract made is immaterial; it was a good slam.

if 2h is forcing over 2c then a jump to 3h over 2c must be forcing?

[Vampyr]

trevahound, on 2013-July-25, 13:41, said:

This is an easier auction with some form of xyx. Presuming str NT, then 1♣ - 1♠ // 1nt - 3♥ (natural, GF, slammish+)// 3♠ - and your off, any reasonable continuations will get you there...

What would be your auction playing weak NT?

SteveMoe, on 2013-July-25, 13:49, said:

Would expect this or similar:

5♣ EKB

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Am used to opening 1♦ when 4=5 or 5=4.

We don't do this, and though I am looking for suggestions to improve my methods I doubt this is one we will adopt.

Quote

Therefore 3♣ promises 5♣ cards, but not 5♦cards.
3♥ rebid shows powerful 2-suiter.
If you don't play EKB, then 5♣ can be a self-splinter.

I am not sure that splintering or bidding exclusionary Blackwood is a very good idea when partner has shown 5 cards in a suit. While I am not sure of another reasonable meaning for 5♣ on this particular auction, I think that other auctions could produce ambiguity. Plus if I have better clubs and worse diamonds we are getting dangerously high.

[Vampyr]

mike777, on 2013-July-25, 14:01, said:

if 2h is forcing over 2c then a jump to 3h over 2c must be forcing?

Undiscussed. Perhaps this is the way to show 6-5 invitational hands? Or is some sort of splinter?

[mike777]

Vampyr, on 2013-July-25, 14:08, said:

Undiscussed. Perhaps this is the way to show 6-5 invitational hands? Or is some sort of splinter?

sounds like a good discussion of what you want your bids to mean after:

1c=whatever
2c=?

[Vampyr]

mike777, on 2013-July-25, 14:11, said:

sounds like a good discussion of what you want your bids to mean after:

1c=whatever
2c=?

Yes. And for that matter after 2NT in the actual auction. Obviously partner could have bid 3♦ over that bid to be unambiguously GF, but then over 3NT it is not so clear what he should do.

[PhilKing]

1♣(nat or 12-14 bal)-1♥(spades)
1♠(various, but includes all 45m)-2♥(FSGF)
2NT(45m, 11-14)-3♣(relay)
3♥(2245)-3♠(nat!)
4♦(cue)-4NT(RKC)
5♥(2 without)-5NT(kings)
6♣(♣K or both red kings)-6♠
Pass

Could chance 6NT at MPs.

[Vampyr]

Love it, Phil. Can I have a copy of the 100-page system notes next time I see you?

[Cyberyeti]

Weak no trump I have previous for opening 1N with the W hand but assume I don't:

1♣-1♠
2♣-2♦(inv + asking)
2N(5+♣/4♦ not 4♥ or 3♠ not maximum)-3♥(4SF)
3♠(2245/2146)-5♣(Exclusion, 4♣ would be suit setting and forcing, 4♦ would be KC in ♣ as I'd have bid 3♦ over 2N with ♦, so no need for 5♣ nat)
5♠-6♠

[trevahound]

I don't play a medium NT, so don't know what that auction would look like. I do play lots of weak NT though (10-13), and playing that I think 2 way stayman with transfer responses on the GFs is wise. I think our auction would be worse than a str NTer's auction, though. So:
1nt - 2♦* (artificial and GF)
2nt* - 3♠ 2nt=5+♣, no 4cM, and 3♠=5(+) spades strain sorting OR self supporting spades and slam interest
4♠ - 5♣ tough rebid for opener here, and might rebid 3nt instead, even with hearts wide open -- however, our style is to raise with Hx in these close situations
5♦ - 5♥
6♣ - 6♥
6♠ - pass with a reluctant sigh. We're off the trump A or a diamond card.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

One alternative after 3 suits have been bid, is for Opener to bid 5S over 4S -- asking for 6S with at least 2nd Rnd Ctrl in the unbid suit ( ♦ ) : at least a singleton or K x .
Unfortunately, with a positive reply, one doesn't know if the ♠ Ace is missing in addition to the ♦ Ace .

EDIT: I see now in OP's post #3 ... this was their auction .

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2013-July-25, 18:01

[Fluffy]

The bidding is easier if you rebid 1NT with west's hand


1m (any)-1♠
1NT- 2m (whatever is forcing)
2x denying 3♠-3♠ forcing
3NT- 5 clubs exclusion
5x- grand try
nopes-6♥ (should be the right trump suit.

[Vampyr]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-July-25, 15:36, said:

One alternative after 3 suits have been bid, is for Opener to bid 5S over 4S -- asking for 6S with at least 2nd Rnd Ctrl in the unbid suit ( ♦ ) :

This happened in the actual auction.

Fluffy, on 2013-July-25, 15:52, said:

The bidding is easier if you rebid 1NT with west's hand

Not available.

[Fluffy]

is 1m-1♠-2♣-3♥ available as nat GF?

[Vampyr]

Fluffy, on 2013-July-25, 17:00, said:

is 1m-1♠-2♣-3♥ available as nat GF?

See above. I am not sure.

[y66]

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2H forcing
3H 5+ hearts, forcing
4C cue hoping pard can cue 4D
4D cue
4N RKC for spades
5H 2 key cards, no SQ
5N king ask
6C CK