[straube]

imps. Forgot vulnerability

You open a strong club and next hand bids 4S passed back to you...

1C (4S) P P ?

What's your plan? If you happen to choose 4N your partner will bid 5C.

My main question is whether there is a rule of thumb for 2-suited hands as to whether to insist on slam or not. By Modern Losing Trick Count this hand has arguably 2 losers. Is that good enough or do we need
void AKJxxx AKQxx Ax or AKJxxx AKJxx AQ or what?

[PhilKing]

I would reopen with 5♠. At least that way partner knows one of you suits is hearts, and it makes it easier to get to grand.

Whilst stopping in five could be right, that is a mad gamble. If we assume that 11, 12 and 13 tricks are equally likely (which is too conservative imo, but bear with me), the drive six "gamble" works best, since it may (should) get us to some making sevens. The low gamble will never get us higher than five, and on a few of the hands where we can't make slam, even five will be too high.

[wangzhi123]

trump strong！4n ogust！

[Zelandakh]

wangzhi123, on 2013-June-10, 00:29, said:

trump strong！4n ogust！

Sorry, what? I realise English is not your first language but this is completely unintelligible (to me at least). Did you perhaps misread the auction?

[Free]

4NT followed by 6♦ showing a very strong 2-suiter ♥-♦ (hopefully)

[wank]

i would bid an artificial 5♠ rather than a natural 4NT.

[the hog]

4NT, not natural of course, and follow with 6D. Same as Frederick.

[Cascade]

I don't see why 4NT followed by 5♥ is not extremely strong (and probably forcing) since if partner hates hearts he has to give a preference to the six-level, therefore if he likes hearts he should be willing to at least raise.

This has the advantages of emaphasising the hearts and allowing partner to rebid clubs.

[Zelandakh]

I think 1♣ - (4♠) - P; 4NT - 5♣; 5♥ shows a strong slam try with the red suits. We can bid 6♦ instead of 5♥ with the slam drive. I am not convinced that Phil's direct 5♠ bid shows a 2-suiter with hearts - what do you bid with a one-suited grand try?

[PhilKing]

Zelandakh, on 2013-June-12, 04:28, said:

I think 1♣ - (4♠) - P; 4NT - 5♣; 5♥ shows a strong slam try with the red suits. We can bid 6♦ instead of 5♥ with the slam drive. I am not convinced that Phil's direct 5♠ bid shows a 2-suiter with hearts - what do you bid with a one-suited grand try?

With a one-suited grand slam try, I jump to six of my suit, which I play as showing a good hand.

This delayed 5♥ thingy doesn't work imo, since you are a bit stymied when partner responds 5♦ rather than 5♣. Granted you will then presumably drive slam, but now it becomes bothersome to unwind the overloaded hand-types.

Removing 5♦ to 5♥ now just shows hearts and clubs usually (unless you play my way where a delayed 5♥ is the weaker way of showing a heart one-suiter).

[Zelandakh]

It seems silly to have 3 ways of showing 2-suiters and only one way of showing a 1-suiter when we can have 2 of each. My preference is to play 4NT followed by 5♥ over 5♦ as either the weaker heart 1-suiter or the weaker hearts and clubs. Sorting out hand types here (after 5♦) does not seem to me to be a big problem - 5♠ = grand try with diamonds; 5NT = diamonds and another with shorter diamonds; 6♣ = clubs and hearts; 6♦ to play. Obviously, if you had a slam try with the red suits your rebid is either 5NT or 6♦ depending on how good the hearts are.

[PhilKing]

Zelandakh, on 2013-June-12, 05:17, said:

My preference is to play 4NT followed by 5♥ over 5♦ as either the weaker heart 1-suiter or the weaker hearts and clubs.

Then 5♥ over 5♣ must also show the weaker heart one-suiter, which contradicts your previous post.

I like a lot of system, but giving too many specific follow-ups seems way OTT. And having a way of showing a one-suited GS try that is somehow different from just bidding a slam makes my head hurt.

My way simplifies things - if I bid 4NT and then drive slam I have the minors, whatever my next bid (unless it is 6♥, which will never happen), so if I bid 4NT and remove 5♣ to 6♦ I have ♠- ♥A ♦AKQJTxx ♣ATxxx or some such, rather than the reds. Whilst this auction appears to be no longer contested, there are "analogous" positions where further competition is likely, such as when we come in over a 4♠ opening, and so we can't really do it all the slow way, which is why I like (4M)-5M my way, and I'm not prepared to alter it here.

[Zelandakh]

It does for me yes. Apples and oranges - that part of my previous post was in response to Wayne and I think between this and Adam's 4♠ opening thread I have managed to confuse myself anyway. Perhaps I should join wang in the English language classes.

[Cascade]

Zelandakh, on 2013-June-12, 04:28, said:

I think 1♣ - (4♠) - P; 4NT - 5♣; 5♥ shows a strong slam try with the red suits. We can bid 6♦ instead of 5♥ with the slam drive. I am not convinced that Phil's direct 5♠ bid shows a 2-suiter with hearts - what do you bid with a one-suited grand try?

This just seems of very limited utility to me. What is partner supposed to do with a bad minimum with one (or maybe even two hearts if 5♥ does not show extra heart length)?

[Zelandakh]

Like I wote before, this is not the method I use but if I did it seems more logical to me to use the 2 bids to differentiate by strength than between 5 and 6 hearts in a situation like this where the 5 level could easily be the last making spot.

[Free]

Cascade, on 2013-June-11, 16:14, said:

I don't see why 4NT followed by 5♥ is not extremely strong (and probably forcing) since if partner hates hearts he has to give a preference to the six-level, therefore if he likes hearts he should be willing to at least raise.

This has the advantages of emaphasising the hearts and allowing partner to rebid clubs.

4NT followed by 5♥ shows some singlesuiter ♥ imo.

[Cascade]

Free, on 2013-June-13, 12:00, said:

4NT followed by 5♥ shows some singlesuiter ♥ imo.

It is certainly possible to play that way.

However you are badly placed with those methods if there is a subsequent 5♠ bid before your rebid unless you are strong enough to bid at the six-level.

Partner could easily have a hand that fits well for either minor but poorly for hearts and won't be nearly as informed to judge if 4NT has this sort of ambiguity.