[inquiry]

 EricK, on 2013-June-14, 12:51, said:

He might think he has a reason to make a penalty double too!

Not with that hand.

[ArtK78]

 TylerE, on 2013-June-14, 13:14, said:

Why? Do you expect -500 or -800 to score well on a board where the par is likely -450 or -480?

It is pretty pessimistic to assume that all of your red cards are losers. And when I hold 8 solid clubs I like partner to know about them.

This is aside from the fact that a 5♣ call makes it quite a bit more difficult for the opps to find their cold slam.

And it is not always easy for the opps to double you when they have no trump tricks.

Last, but certainly not least, it is my experience that for every time I go for 500 or more when I make this bid there are an equal number of times that I score +750 or +950 when partner turns up with a surprisingly fitting hand (sometimes opposite a making game the other way).

[rmnka447]

 TylerE, on 2013-June-14, 11:47, said:

5♣ is a dumb bid. About all it will accomplish is talking opponents into bidding slam when it's right.

Not exactly. If you are going to bid ♣, then 5 ♣ is the call to make. A lesser ♣ bid gives the opponent's some room to explore game vs. slam. By bidding 5 ♣, you may occasionally goad the opponents into slam. But just as likely if not more often, there may be enough uncertainty that neither opponent can bid a perfectly makeable slam.

If partner holds a little more, bidding 5 ♣ puts the opponents in the position of having to make a decision about competing to 5 ♠ or doubling.

In any case, the double of 5 ♠ should never be made.

[TylerE]

Listen to the auction! Unless one of the opps is psyching, partner doesn't have whatever hand y'all seem to be playing him for. The top end of his range is something like KKJ, and opponents know how to play all the suits after you gave them the roadmap.

[Phil]

 TylerE, on 2013-June-14, 14:45, said:

Listen to the auction! Unless one of the opps is psyching, partner doesn't have whatever hand y'all seem to be playing him for. The top end of his range is something like KKJ, and opponents know how to play all the suits after you gave them the roadmap.

I'm lisnin' but ayam not hearin' nuttin'!

I see my neighbuh makes a forcin' raise with sum newfangled contrapshun instead of forcin' de biddin' by jumpin'.

I see a bunch uh black cads of all de sem suit. Daddy told me to smack em' good by biddin' a lot of dem' clubs. Make it hahduh to find der slam.

[MrAce]

 Phil, on 2013-June-14, 16:00, said:

I'm lisnin' but ayam not hearin' nuttin'!

I see my neighbuh makes a forcin' raise with sum newfangled contrapshun instead of forcin' de biddin' by jumpin'.

I see a bunch uh black cads of all de sem suit. Daddy told me to smack em' good by biddin' a lot of dem' clubs. Make it hahduh to find der slam.

Where you came from corn, bread and chicken ?

[Fluffy]

 Hanoi5, on 2013-June-13, 19:44, said:

---

Let's say North supports spades showing a good hand (FG+)Is there any reason to double with West's hand?

If the final contract is 8 spades perhaps...

[the hog]

 ArtK78, on 2013-June-14, 14:17, said:

It is pretty pessimistic to assume that all of your red cards are losers. And when I hold 8 solid clubs I like partner to know about them.

This is aside from the fact that a 5♣ call makes it quite a bit more difficult for the opps to find their cold slam.

And it is not always easy for the opps to double you when they have no trump tricks.

Last, but certainly not least, it is my experience that for every time I go for 500 or more when I make this bid there are an equal number of times that I score +750 or +950 when partner turns up with a surprisingly fitting hand (sometimes opposite a making game the other way).

Agree with Art. 5C is not a dumb bid. Lesser C bids are dumb.

[neilkaz]

I'd also bid 5♣ and hopefully put the opps to the last guess. I don't see how overall this helps the opps bid slam as while it may tell them that they have a 30 pt deck, it also takes up space so I think this is a fair trade off. It also may not help them in the play, as decl may assume that I have almost all the missing high cards. We also could have a ♣ sac at an even higher level.

But as for doubling 5♠, this asks for 2 things. 1)For a new partner. 2) To be redoubled by an opp with a ♣void who was considering a slam try.