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You bid vulnerable so I double... ATB

#1 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2013-June-13, 19:44



Let's say North supports spades showing a good hand (FG+)Is there any reason to double with West's hand?

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#2 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2013-June-13, 22:47

With N showing a GF+ hand and support, West has no reason to double 7♠ let alone 5.

EDIT: Unless DBL specifically shows a hand that has 0-1 tricks in defense + ♣ support.
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2013-June-13, 22:55

"Is there any reason to double with West's hand? "
No reason whatsoever.
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#4 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2013-June-13, 23:03

To disagree with the hog, I could imagine a double only possible reason is a striped tail ape double.
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#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 01:06

View Postinquiry, on 2013-June-13, 23:03, said:

To disagree with the hog, I could imagine a double only possible reason is a striped tail ape double.



Ok Ben. I did not think of this possibility and "yes" I agree with you. However I think it is most unlikely that the op had this thought in mind.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#6 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 01:14

View Postinquiry, on 2013-June-13, 23:03, said:

To disagree with the hog, I could imagine a double only possible reason is a striped tail ape double.

Has West got any reason to make a stripe-tailed ape double?
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#7 User is offline   uhhlv 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 03:22

A striped tail ape double might work here. But west has no indication that NS bid slam or that slam is even possible. The diamond king seems to be a trick and maybe the queen of hearts or the jack of diamond.
And west doesn t know, that east has absolutly no Defense trick. If east had the jack of hearts and/or the diamond figures are onside, slam is not possible most of the time.
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#8 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 05:08

View PostEricK, on 2013-June-14, 01:14, said:

Has West got any reason to make a stripe-tailed ape double?



No. What Ben is saying that a x is absurd except for the remote possibility that......
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#9 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 05:19

View PostEricK, on 2013-June-14, 01:14, said:

Has West got any reason to make a stripe-tailed ape double?


Yes - but only if he IS a stripe-tailed ape (which the facts seem to support).
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#10 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 07:29

Would it be different if North had bid 4♠ and then 5♠ over 5♣?

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#11 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 07:40

I don't understand even considering a double on the West cards. To me, even having the thought cross my mind is a misbid.

If East doubled 5♠ I would sit for it (I am not suggesting that East should double 5♠ - far from it).
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#12 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 08:26

.
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#13 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 08:27

View PostHanoi5, on 2013-June-14, 07:29, said:

Would it be different if North had bid 4♠ and then 5♠ over 5♣?


Anyone who thinks it might has basically misinterpretted something written in the 70s by Kantar or whoever. Virtually noone plays the -650/750 method of "always forcing at red anymore" - I'd go so far as to say it is not bridge. Bidding 5♣ is a potentially a punt at any colours, and partner then passed it, showing a hand that does not think we can make slam.
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#14 User is offline   mikl_plkcc 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 08:50

Bidding double is horrible as the overcall strongly suggests ♠ void.

I would show my 3-card support instead, hoping they dare not double us.
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#15 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 10:25

View PostEricK, on 2013-June-14, 01:14, said:

Has West got any reason to make a stripe-tailed ape double?



No, but he might think he has.
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#16 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 10:39

this auction has been very informative the opps opened and
forced to game in spades. That means you p already has a
strong idea of your maximum when they chose to bid 5c
at unfavorable. You have zero clue what p hand looks like
so you have no logical basis to make any further decisions
with this particular hand.If by chance you had the 2 red suit
aces instead of this collection of garbage you could bid 6c
note that i still would not x 5s.

This collection however merely increases the probability we
have zero club tricks and our only hope is diamond trick(s).
I wholeheartedly agree with the opinion that we should not
x 7s much less consider x of 5s. The strip tailed ape x has a
fall back position and we have no clue if such a situation
exists in this hand thus making that bid immediately obsolete.
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#17 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 11:47

5♣ is a dumb bid. About all it will accomplish is talking opponents into bidding slam when it's right.
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#18 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 12:01

View PostTylerE, on 2013-June-14, 11:47, said:

5♣ is a dumb bid. About all it will accomplish is talking opponents into bidding slam when it's right.

I guess there are a lot of dummies out there. I would bid 5♣ on the East hand. And I am sure that many others would as well.
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#19 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 12:51

View Postinquiry, on 2013-June-14, 10:25, said:

No, but he might think he has.

He might think he has a reason to make a penalty double too!
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#20 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2013-June-14, 13:14

View PostArtK78, on 2013-June-14, 12:01, said:

I guess there are a lot of dummies out there. I would bid 5♣ on the East hand. And I am sure that many others would as well.


Why? Do you expect -500 or -800 to score well on a board where the par is likely -450 or -480?
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