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Standard Stuff ............................is it?

#1 User is offline   JonnyQuest 

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Posted 2013-June-04, 19:27

1 - (1) - X The double shows both Majors, yes? Standard stuff?

But....what about:

1 - (2) - X Still BOTH Majors?

If:

1 - (2) - 2 ******* What is 2 here? Does it promise a 5 card suit?
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#2 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 01:57

After a (weak) jump overcall, you just do not have enough bidding space to restrict double to being only both majors. It has to cover a wider range of hands than this. The 2 response shows 5+ spades and is forcing.
(-: Zel :-)

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#3 User is offline   GreenMan 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 02:11

View PostZelandakh, on 2013-June-05, 01:57, said:

After a (weak) jump overcall, you just do not have enough bidding space to restrict double to being only both majors. It has to cover a wider range of hands than this. The 2 response shows 5+ spades and is forcing.


Indeed. This is a good example of a time when you have to make the call that misdescribes your hand the least. There are lots of others. Also an example of how your own pre-empt can force the opps to make choices they'd rather not have to.
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#4 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 08:53

Double of 2 is either:

1. At least 4-3 majors less than invite.
2. One or both 4M with inv+ values.

The first hand will pass simple rebids from opener. The second will take a second call (typically notrump or clubs or cue if opener bids the major where we do not have four).
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#5 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 15:45

How often do you have 4-4 in the Majors in those situations ?
I have posted this non-standard treatment before:

-- Neg-DBL shows shows 4 cards and says nada about .

-- Bidding shows 4+ cards

-- Bidding shows 5+ cards.
Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

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#6 User is offline   wangzhi123 

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Posted 2013-June-09, 12:42

i use bid double 44 major!and 1h 1s 4+ indicate the opening head and constuctive!
double 44 major or single suit 17p+
y,five good suit
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#7 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-June-10, 03:33

View Postwangzhi123, on 2013-June-09, 12:42, said:

i use bid double 44 major!and 1h 1s 4+ indicate the opening head and constuctive!
double 44 major or single suit 17p+

This sounds like the perfect system... providing the opps are banned from calling the TD.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#8 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2013-June-28, 10:06

View PostZelandakh, on 2013-June-10, 03:33, said:

This sounds like the perfect system... providing the opps are banned from calling the TD.

Allow me to translate :
1 - (1) - X The double shows both Majors, yes?
. . Yes, 4-4 both majors. (1 and 1 would be 4 card)
1 - (2) - X Still BOTH Majors?
. . Yes, assume 4-4 both majors, but it could also be 17+ hcp with an unspecified long suit.
1 - (2) - 2 ******* What is 2 here? Does it promise a 5 card suit?
. . Yes

Perfectly normal where I live.
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#9 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-June-28, 10:19

View PostfromageGB, on 2013-June-28, 10:06, said:

Allow me to translate :
1 - (1) - X The double shows both Majors, yes?
. . Yes, 4-4 both majors. (1 and 1 would be 4 card)
1 - (2) - X Still BOTH Majors?
. . Yes, assume 4-4 both majors, but it could also be 17+ hcp with an unspecified long suit.
1 - (2) - 2 ******* What is 2 here? Does it promise a 5 card suit?
. . Yes

Perfectly normal where I live.

So what do you do with a 9-11 count 4-2 in the majors without a diamond stop ? say AQxx, Kx, xxxx, Jxx particularly opposite a maybe short club.

Edit: - over 2, not 1, and what does opener do with 4225/2425.
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#10 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2013-June-28, 10:36

View PostCyberyeti, on 2013-June-28, 10:19, said:

So what do you do with a 9-11 count 4-2 in the majors without a diamond stop ? say AQxx, Kx, xxxx, Jxx particularly opposite a maybe short club.

Playing with a random pick-up partner, 1. As the poster said, constructive.
Not my methods, and twoforbridge's post seems a better method. Is it standard, though? I am not aware of it.

Edit - I am not espousing any method, just offering my interpretation of the post. Personally I would bid 1 to show spades.
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#11 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-June-28, 11:57

View PostfromageGB, on 2013-June-28, 10:36, said:

Playing with a random pick-up partner, 1. As the poster said, constructive.
Not my methods, and twoforbridge's post seems a better method. Is it standard, though? I am not aware of it.

Edit - I am not espousing any method, just offering my interpretation of the post. Personally I would bid 1 to show spades.

Sorry, should have specified, over 2.
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#12 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2013-June-28, 18:44

I don't know if it's considered standard, but I do know that Marty Bergen is pretty emphatic that a negative double only shows both majors in the specific auction 1-(1)-X.
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#13 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-June-29, 00:26

View Postblackshoe, on 2013-June-28, 18:44, said:

I don't know if it's considered standard, but I do know that Marty Bergen is pretty emphatic that a negative double only shows both majors in the specific auction 1-(1)-X.

I consider this to be standard.



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