[haver]

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding goes:

1H - p - p - your turn

[DrTodd13]

Looks like it fits the definition of a 3♣ bid here to me.

Todd

[flytoox]

3C. perfect hand.

[inquiry]

yes.... 3♣ - what a reopening jump bid is all about.

[Free]

3♣, thank you come again

[luke warm]

hey guys, what does partner count you for when you bid 3c here? reason i ask is, the playing strength makes this hand strong enough to double and then bid clubs, but if 3c shows this kind of strength maybe it isn't necessary

[inquiry]

luke warm, on Jan 4 2005, 08:17 PM, said:

hey guys, what does partner count you for when you bid 3c here? reason i ask is, the playing strength makes this hand strong enough to double and then bid clubs, but if 3c shows this kind of strength maybe it isn't necessary

If you double 1♥ here, you will play 1♥x too often, and the majority of these time, it will be wrong.

[HeartA]

I would bid 3C.

This reminds me of a hand I played yesterday. Both Vul, my LHO as dealer, opened 1H-pass-pass-3S by me. My LHO bid 4H again. My pd, holding ♠52, ♥A92, ♦AQ53, ♣QJT8, passed all the way. 4♥ went down 2, while we had cold 5S. My hand was ♠KQJ9863, ♥-, ♦T874, ♣K5.

Who took the blame?

[pclayton]

I think its lot closer than others say. I'd rather have only 6 clubs, and its tough to get to spades after I force the auction. But my plan is 3♣ followed by a double of 3♥ which may get spades into play.

[luke warm]

inquiry, on Jan 5 2005, 02:29 AM, said:

luke warm, on Jan 4 2005, 08:17 PM, said:

hey guys, what does partner count you for when you bid 3c here? reason i ask is, the playing strength makes this hand strong enough to double and then bid clubs, but if 3c shows this kind of strength maybe it isn't necessary

If you double 1♥ here, you will play 1♥x too often, and the majority of these time, it will be wrong.

ok, yeah i can see that... and i guess playing a doubled contract just once is once too many, with that hand... but still, what kind of strength does an immediate 3c show? exactly what i have?

[Flame]

I would bid 3c if i'll think about it, seems like the prefect hand.

[pbleighton]

"..but still, what kind of strength does an immediate 3c show? exactly what i have?"

NV, could be a yarborough too

This hand would be too strong (barely) for a 3 level jump IMO if the suit was a major, but you are unlikely to miss a minor suit game opposite a passed pd.

If the suit was a major, I might jump to 4, but wouldn't bid 3.

Peter

[mikestar]

There is no reason to preempt in the passout seat, so the hand should be good. The way I define it: I would have an old fashioned Goren strong jump overcall if I added the "borrowed" King for balancing. A SJO of 3C in direct seat if would be a good 7 1/2 to a bad 8 1/2 tricks, so the balancing call is about a good 6 1/2 to a bad 7 1/2.

The reason to avoid the double whenever possible on this type of hand is that partner is far more likely to leave it in with trump length behind the bidder than after (1H)-X-(P) as here partner's trump length is in front of the bidder.

[Fluffy]

Don't think its best, but I guess I would double on real life, have very few partners wich the 3♣ range specified.

[luke warm]

what fluffy said was also my concern if 3c can be anything from 8 to what i have, that range is too wide... i know doubling with the void is bad (well, not best), but it doesn't seem best to bid 3c when partner has no idea what it means

[inquiry]

luke warm, on Jan 5 2005, 07:19 AM, said:

what fluffy said was also my concern if 3c can be anything from 8 to what i have, that range is too wide... i know doubling with the void is bad (well, not best), but it doesn't seem best to bid 3c when partner has no idea what it means

3♣ can not be eight hcp. That is, 3♣ in the balancing seat is not a preemptive bid. The WEAKER you are, the stronger your partner is, and vice versa (that is the theory of balancing... your bids take into account your partner's expected points).

The theory goes something like this...just like for a balancing NT that which shows weaker than a direct NT range (or at least a much wider range), a balancing simple bid shows the bid suit and something like 8 to some number or points, but definetly limited, and not a "good hand". A jump to 2 or 3 of a suit in the balancing seat is basically an "intermediate" bid. Defined as a fair to good 6+ suit and equavalent to a good opening hand. If you have a better hand, you double and then bid a new suit (showing a really good hand) or you double then cue-bid (which is game force).

If you just have to preempt in the balancing seat, use a double jump.

From this thread, it seems we should have one that discusses the meaning of various balancing actions at the one level. Seems there maybe people with different ideas than what I think is "standard". Of course, as usual, my ideas of what is standard might be horribly warped.

Ben

[helene_t]

This should not surprise you, Ben. Marty Bergen (in Points Schmoints) says, refering to the fact that a jump in ballancing seat is stronger than a non-jump: "If I had a penny for every player who doesn't know this I would have more money than my wife could spend".

With 3 spades I would rather double first, but the 7th club makes 3♣ a good bid. Tis should be a very accurate bid so that partner know whether or not to bid 3NT.

[flytoox]

Those dblers should ask yourself a question: If pd has long spade, AND long heart(he should have it), wont he overcall 1S? We all knows we should overcall if holding RHO's suit.

Put it another way: Pd just cannot have long spades! Even not 4card!


Now you know why you should bid club rather than dbl.

[Fluffy]

thes emakes sense, but aren't ♦ a suit also? I think the suit that wasn't a suit when bid was ♣