[Poky]

MP. All love.

♠x
♥108xx
♦A109x
♣KJxx


pass - pass - 1♣ - 2♥
pass - 3♥ - Dbl* - pass
???

* Negative

Do you agree with the 1st pass?
What will you bid?

[the hog]

Agree with first pass, I can't really double as my S suit seems a bit threadbare. Now I bid 4NT - pick a minor.

[mike777]

4nt seems clear as hog says. Pass would be my second choice as p should not x with a void.

[Poky]

mike777, on Dec 4 2004, 04:28 AM, said:

4nt seems clear as hog says.  Pass would be my second choice as p should not x with a void.

I don't understand these 4NT bids. Partner opened 1♣, not 1♦. The "pick a minor" bid works better if you have some 1453 hand or similar. With 1444 it is clear that we shall play in clubs.

[inquiry]

Poky, on Dec 4 2004, 01:15 AM, said:

With 1444 it is clear that we shall play in clubs.

There are reasons to play in a 4-4 fit when there is 5-4 fit on the same hand. For instance, if partner is void in hearts, a few heart ruffs in his hand give you exta tricks and you still win his five clubs. Your diamonds are not strong enough for thinking this on this hand.

The reasonable choices are pass, 5♣. 6♣ and 4♥.

Pass puts all your eggs in one basket. They will have a nine card fit (at most), and they are not vul. I have sympathy for pass at matchpoints, but I am not bidding it.

There is 5♣, giving up on 6 (well, partner has another bid, of course), there is 6♣, putting all your eggs in one basket. I like 4♥ cue-bid. Showing willingness (obviously) to go five clubs (especailly if partner bids 4♠ and I bid 5♣, but also by inference, willing to do more. That is 5♣ is not inviting, 6♣ is to unilateral. So I bid 4♥, planning on pulling 4♠ to 5♣.

Ben

[HeartA]

I was thinking (of 6C).... 4NT? no, as you have clear ♣ fit; 5♣? underbid, pd dbled 3♥ while you passed twice (I would not pass 2♥). 4♥ is the best (I peeked Ben's answer).

[flytoox]

I think you should raise to 3C in the first round. Now I bid 5C. IN this sequence pd has 4 clubs for sure.

[whereagles]

I would have bid 3C as well. Could end up in the moysian fit, but I think it's the lesser evil.

[Fluffy]

I would had doubled first round, althou it is close.

Now can´t think on anything else than 4♥ followed by 5♣, partner might find 6♣ by himself.

[flytoox]

Fluffy, on Dec 4 2004, 02:39 PM, said:

I would had doubled first round, althou it is close.

Now can´t think on anything else than 4♥ followed by 5♣, partner might find 6♣ by himself.

Dbl is bad in this case, it should promise spade. Pd will bid spades and you will retreat to club and pd will wonder what you want to do. He may think you have a hand better than direct raise.

[inquiry]

flytoox, on Dec 4 2004, 11:51 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Dec 4 2004, 02:39 PM, said:

I would had doubled first round, althou it is close.

Now can´t think on anything else than 4♥ followed by 5♣, partner might find 6♣ by himself.

Dbl is bad in this case, it should promise spades. Pd will bid spades and you will retreat to club and pd will wonder what you want to do. He may think you have a hand better than direct raise.

I wouldn't double either, but double isn't horrible if your style permits it. You can bid 3♣ over 2♠ and 4♣ over 3♠ and 5♣ over 4♠. This can work if your partner knows you will double with such hands. If you play double as "two places to play" and not enough to bid naturally, it should work here. But I don't double when long in their suit, just not my style. I can pass here expecting partner to balance here, and I will act accordingly, but I would bid 3♣ over 2♥ myself.

ben

[junyi_zhu]

Poky, on Dec 4 2004, 02:15 AM, said:

MP. All love.

♠x
♥108xx
♦A109x
♣KJxx


pass - pass - 1♣ - 2♥
pass - 3♥ - Dbl* - pass
???

* Negative

Do you agree with the 1st pass?
What will you bid?

Just bid 3C over 2H, now it's very hard to bid. you probably should cuebid 4H and hope partner can understand your situation which I am not positive about.

[beatrix45]

Disagree with the pass of 2H. 3C or even 4C is better. Having sandbagged partner, you have to catch up now by bidding 5C. Silly to bid 4NT since partner has shown more clubs than diamonds.

[preempt]

Would have bid 3♣ over 2♥. Now I bid 4♥ hoping he'll bid 4♠ so my conversion to 5♣ will sound like a slam invite. Double wasn't balancing since I would have had a chance to bid over 3♥-P-P and, it wasn't unlikely I would have to bid at the 4 level over his double, so pard should have a very good hand.

[luke warm]

i voted 6c but justin's right... i just confused the hell out of partner

[mike777]

Wow, this post has really become interesting from my first response.

1) Thought first pass was ok and still my first choice, but can live with 3clubs.
Since we open very junky hands 3clubs is a bit of overbid but underpressure here.

2) Now the bidding has become very nice. After my first pass, 4nt must show this hand type with concentrated minor suit values, GREAT!.

a: deny limit raise or better with pass
b: no negative x so deny spades or values for 3 level.
c: no 4h cue bid, deny heart control
d: deny penalty of hearts or stoppers with 4nt bid
e: maximum hand for bidding at this point with minor suit values and still some slam interest. Hopefully a bit stronger than direct 5 club.


I see almost all disagree with me on this one and have come up with different logic for their bidding. Makes for very lively and informative post. Thanks.

[pclayton]

I have no doubt that pard would understand 4N. I just think it shows more like a 1453 or a 0454 pattern. Where else do you want to play this hand but clubs?

[han]

imo 4NT shows longer diamonds than clubs. I'd bid 5C, but having read Ben's post I like 4H. After all, how much better can our hand be after passing first!

I would bid 3C right away. Imagine that partner had reopened with a double over 2H (which seems like the most likely continuation). Then it would be impossible to describe our strength.

Having said that, I would have serious problems over 2H since I play a short club.

[fred]

I would have bid 3C the first time without feeling any pain.

Having passed I would 4H the 2nd time since I could not possibly have a better hand in support of clubs given my pass (but I don't really like to answer problems about what I would do had I already done something I wouldn't have done).

In general I think that it is a mistake to spend a lot of time worry about "partner might have only 3 clubs". Just raise when you have a raise and things will tend to work out OK.

Note that on this particular hand, once RHO bids 2H the chances of partner having only 3 clubs are greatly diminished (because he would then have to have all 3 of the missing hearts and that is not very likely).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com