[xx1943]

Hi all

this board came up in ACBL-tourney 2005-1-1.

Only two pairs found the grand. Is there a bidding, where you can count 13 tricks for sure in SAYC, 2/1, precision or other?
Is there a way to find out heart Q?

Scoring: IMP

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This is how I bid sitting EAST. Probably 4♣ would be better than 4NT.

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 1♣    Pass  1♥    Pass
 3♣    Pass  4NT   Pass RKCB 3041
 5♣    Pass  5NT   Pass Asking for Kings
 6♣    Pass  Pass  Pass

[EricK]

Certainly 4♣ is better than 4NT. Partner may not have a diamond control!

There may not be a way to find out about the ♥Q, but there is a way to let opener know how important the card is.

1♣ 1♥
3♣ 4♣
4♦ 4♥
4♠ 5♥
7♣

The 7♣ is a bit of a punt in that opener can't quite count 13 tricks, but responder's 5♥ cue, since it forces to at least the small slam, obviously shows a little bit extra. So opener can see 7♣ 3♥ 1♦ 1♠ and many chances for a 13th (♥J, outside singleton, outside K, plus a few more which give a play for the grand)

Eric

[xx1943]

EricK, on Jan 2 2005, 01:28 PM, said:

Certainly 4♣ is better than 4NT. Partner may not have a diamond control!

There may not be a way to find out about the ♥Q, but there is a way to let opener know how important the card is.

1♣ 1♥
3♣ 4♣
4♦ 4♥
4♠ 5♥
7♣

The 7♣ is a bit of a punt in that opener can't quite count 13 tricks, but responder's 5♥ cue, since it forces to at least the small slam, obviously shows a little bit extra. So opener can see 7♣ 3♥ 1♦ 1♠ and many chances for a 13th (♥J, outside singleton, outside K, plus a few more which give a play for the grand)

Eric

ty Eric

this is another example why Blackwood shld forbidden.

Al

[Fluffy]

You were on the right mood, but you don't really want to know about Kinds, since ♠K is rather useless for you, even if you asked about ♥Q (bidding 5♥ after 5♣) wich is a great guess you would get a second round control (singleton) probably.

I can't find any way to count 13 tricks except Erick's one, but I Am not very sure 5♥ is a good bid with singleton spade, it looks liek the proper time for 4NT.

[Free]

If you have the room to investigate controls, then you should do it. This is a clear example of poor RKC use! 4♣ is the best bid to search for controls

[mikestar]

Here is how it goes in my 4-card major Big club system:

2C 3S
4C 4N
5D 5H
7C

2C = <17 HCP, 6+ clubs, no 4 card major.
3S = splinter
4C = Minorwood
4N = 2 keycards with the Queen (responder knows there are 10 trumps)
5D = Kings?
5H = King of hearts, may have other kings.
7C = Opener can count 13 tricks (7 trumps, 3 hearts, AS, AD, and spade ruff).

Admittedly, this fails if partner's hearts are AK doubleton, but he might have the King of Diamonds.

[pclayton]

Playing my stuff:

2♣ - 2N
3♣ - 4♠
5♦ - 5♥
7♣

1. 2♣ = 4-5 losers, at least 5 controls
2. 2N = 4 controls
3. 4♠ = splinter
4. 5♦ = asking bid
5. 5♥ = no 1st or 2nd round control. Opener knows responder has the right red king.

__________________________________________________


Playing 2/1 with a good partner and a few gadgets:

1♣ - 1♥
3♣ - 4♠
4N - 5♦
??

Pard has shown the s/v spade, A♥ and K♣. He must have a few more extras for the splinter. Bidding the grand is a reasonable shot, albeit unprecise.

1♣ - 1♥
3♣ - 4♣

Posters beware: many of you play minorwood and kickback in these sequences, so cue bidding 'controls' is easier said than done.

[Free]

Playing my stuff, you can start your own bidding after a 2♥ opener in South (probably followed by some ♠s in North)

[EricK]

pclayton, on Jan 2 2005, 06:26 PM, said:

1♣ - 1♥
3♣ - 4♣

Posters beware: many of you play minorwood and kickback in these sequences, so cue bidding 'controls' is easier said than done.

Do people use this 4♣ bid as minorwood?

I can understand it if ♣ has already been agreed, but it strikes me as more useful for this to simply be suit agreement. If you then want to play 4♦ by opener as some sort of Ace ask then that would be sensible.

Also, how often can the weaker hand simply ask for Aces so early in the auction? Not often enough for it to be part of the system, would be my answer.

Eric

[pclayton]

When I played minorwood, we played all direct raises to 4 (unless otherwise defined as preemptive) as minorwood. We'd rather overbid to 5 (and answer aces) than have a disaster where 4 just agreed trump (or could be passed for that matter!).

Competitive auctions are excepted.

This is a subtle reason why kickback leads to less confusion than minorwood.

[luke warm]

pclayton, on Jan 3 2005, 04:58 AM, said:

This is a subtle reason why kickback leads to less confusion than minorwood.

right, unless you play as you described... every bid of 4m, when that minor is agreed, is rkc... that can be difficult