[mike777]

What type of hand do you expect 3h to be here....examples?

(1d)=p=p=1h
p=3h?


opp opened 1d....

[ArtK78]

It is a matter of partnership agreement.

Either the 3♥ call is preemptive (are we really worried about third hand backing into this auction after the initial pass?) or it is constructive.

Clearly, 2♦ would be stronger, showing a penalty pass of 1♦, but not necessarily showing a fit. So, with a full invitation to game, second hand should cue bid then raise hearts. 3♥ probably should show a mixed raise type of hand - 4 or 5 hearts, less than a full invitation to game.

[ahydra]

ArtK78, on 2013-March-28, 08:29, said:

Clearly, 2♦ would be stronger, showing a penalty pass of 1♦

Interesting. I would have thought 2D here was just a standard UCB showing a good heart raise (as such, 3H is pre-emptive; how much so is down to partnership agreement, for me it shows something like xxx QJxx x Axxxx)

ahydra

[Codo]

3 ♥ preeemptive, 2 ♦ good raise, but not necessary a pen. double of 1 ♦.

[gszes]

under these specific circumstances i prefer the 2d cue to
have several meanings.
1. limit + raise for p overcall
2. opening hand with decent diamonds and probably short in p overcall
(most likely would have passed a reopening x).
3. 6/7 good diamonds with side ace and no fit. (immediate 3d shows the
same suit but little outside).

p generally just rebids their suit if no game interest opposite a limit raise or
bids another suit with extra values and allow p to describe their hand.

for me the 3h bid is still peemptive but my hand will have not much
offense or defense and 4+ in hearts. Qx Kxxxx Qxxx xx. 2h raise tends to be
stronger and more balanced but not good enough to be a limit raise.

We dont make special allowance for openers failure to rebid because they may
very easily pass and 18-19 point hand balanced if they dont see any hope
for game hoping the opps willl overbid.

[lalldonn]

How could it be preemptive? That makes no sense. One opponent couldn't respond to an opening bid, the other opened 1♦ then passed over 1♥. I understand it's not some balanced 13 point raise since that would cuebid, but it still has to be an invitational type of hand. I would take it as a good playing hand like Kxx Jxxxx x Axxx, a limit raise based on shape.

Also saying "by agreement" is a cop out. Who has an agreement about this auction? If you had to apply some agreement though I think it would be logical to consider it the same type of hand as P P 1♥ P 3♥, if you have an agreement for that one. That's another auction where there is a more common strong raise available and there is no need to preempt.

[dustinst22]

Sensible to play 2D as 3c good raise (or even just a good hand that couldnt act over 1d?) and 3H as 4+ good raise?

[han]

I would play the same as over (1D) - 1H, maybe 3H should be slightly more constructive and 3D and 2NT are also slightly better.