[kgr]

This is related to my 5♦ defense post, but from team mates.
Playing Walsh or T-Walsh and 4th suit GF (or invite+ if you want). How do you bid following hands?

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[helene_t]

With the first hand I would bid my diamonds and forget about the hearts.
With the third hand I would bid hearts if xyz allows me to sign off in 2d after a 1sp rebid . Otherwise I bid as.with hand 1.
Hand 2 is borderline

[fromageGB]

If you are playing Twalsh with natural rebids, then all of these are 1♣ 1♦ 1♥(denies 4 card support, 12-14) 2♦. Aren't they?
Unfortunately here for me, my 2♦ rebid has an artificial meaning, so on hands 1 and 2 I forget the hearts and play in 2♦. (My sequence 1♣ 1♠ 1NT 2♦).
On hand 3 I forget the diamonds and show hearts. (My sequence 1♣ 1♦ 1♥ 1♠ 1NT).

[kgr]

fromageGB, on 2013-March-26, 16:55, said:

If you are playing Twalsh with natural rebids, then all of these are 1♣ 1♦ 1♥(denies 4 card support, 12-14) 2♦. Aren't they?

Not our cup of T-Walsh.
We play 1♥=3c♥, focing

fromageGB, on 2013-March-26, 16:55, said:

Unfortunately here for me, my 2♦ rebid has an artificial meaning, so on hands 1 and 2 I forget the hearts and play in 2♦. (My sequence 1♣ 1♠ 1NT 2♦).

In our T-Walsh version:
1♣1♦
1♥-? (1♥=3c♥)
- 2♦=5c♥, inv+
- 3♦=4c♥, splinter
- 2♠=4c♥, 6c♦, max limit strength

1♣1♦
1♠-?
- 2♦=4th suit GF
- 3♦=splinter, 4c♠
- 4♦=void, 4c♠
- 5♦=voidwood

1♣-1♠! (transfer ♦ or transfer NT)
1NT-2♦ (2♦=reverse strength)

fromageGB, on 2013-March-26, 16:55, said:

On hand 3 I forget the diamonds and show hearts. (My sequence 1♣ 1♦ 1♥ 1♠ 1NT).

with our T-Walsh system I would choose:
1♣-3♦ = invite with ♦

[helene_t]

So you don't have a way to show a weak hand with diamonds, regardless of whether you also have a four-card major or not? Sounds like a whole in your system.

It is of course problematic to use 1♦ followed by 2♦ as a weak canapé since you would also like 1♦ followed by 2♣ as a weak bid, but at the same time it is nice to have either 2♣ or 2♦ available as an artificial force. I suppose after a 1NT rebid you could use 2♠ as the artificial force and after a 1♥ rebid you could use 1♠, but after a 1♠ rebid you need to play either xyz or fsf.

But 1♠ followed by 2♦ should be to play IMO, I don't see why it should show reverse strength. It is analogous to
1♣-1♦
1NT-2♦
in Walsh (it doesn't make sense to play XYZ here).

[PhilKing]

Hand 1. 1♣-1♠(no major, less than GF unless balanced). I just ignore hearts unless partner introduces them.

Hand 2. 1♣-1♠. Same but close. I can't really stomach responding 1♦(hearts) if partner is unreasonable enough to rebid 1♠.

Hand 3. 1♣-1♦(hearts). If partner bids 1♥(balanced or various hand types) I bid 1♠, which asks partner to bid 1NT with the balanced type. I can then puppet to 2♦.

[fromageGB]

PhilKing, on 2013-March-27, 10:16, said:

Hand 3. 1♣-1♦(hearts). If partner bids 1♥(balanced or various hand types) I bid 1♠, which asks partner to bid 1NT with the balanced type. I can then puppet to 2♦.

This is a good idea I could adopt. If I could remember it ! I bid the same up to 1NT but have not gone beyond that point. However, it does not work if you have 4 spades, or if you have long clubs I guess. Just ♥♦? I suppose you could bid 2♣ and 2♦ naturally, but then that loses any other sequences you may have following a puppet to 2♦.

[PhilKing]

fromageGB, on 2013-March-27, 10:53, said:

This is a good idea I could adopt. If I could remember it ! I bid the same up to 1NT but have not gone beyond that point. However, it does not work if you have 4 spades, or if you have long clubs I guess. Just ♥♦? I suppose you could bid 2♣ and 2♦ naturally, but then that loses any other sequences you may have following a puppet to 2♦.

After 1♣-1♥, I don't think completing to 1♠ with 12-14 balanced works very well. I play that completing shows various unbalanced hands (forcing) and 1NT is 12-14 balanced, which is just smoother.

[kgr]

helene_t, on 2013-March-27, 10:18, said:

So you don't have a way to show a weak hand with diamonds, regardless of whether you also have a four-card major or not? Sounds like a whole in your system.

It is of course problematic to use 1♦ followed by 2♦ as a weak canapé since you would also like 1♦ followed by 2♣ as a weak bid, but at the same time it is nice to have either 2♣ or 2♦ available as an artificial force. I suppose after a 1NT rebid you could use 2♠ as the artificial force and after a 1♥ rebid you could use 1♠, but after a 1♠ rebid you need to play either xyz or fsf.

But 1♠ followed by 2♦ should be to play IMO, I don't see why it should show reverse strength. It is analogous to
1♣-1♦
1NT-2♦
in Walsh (it doesn't make sense to play XYZ here).

Sorry, I was wrong in my post.
After 1NT by opener 2C is strength asking, 2D transfer to H and 2NT is transfer to D.
After 2C rebid by opener, 2D is to play.

1C-2S
2D
This is the reverse of us (opener is supposed to bid 1NT or 2C with a weak hand)

[fromageGB]

PhilKing, on 2013-March-27, 14:02, said:

After 1♣-1♥, I don't think completing to 1♠ with 12-14 balanced works very well. I play that completing shows various unbalanced hands (forcing) and 1NT is 12-14 balanced, which is just smoother.

I like this idea, too. By playing the same over both majors - completing with 12-14 and 2 or 3 in the major - I wrong-side a 1NT contract when responder has 4 spades. The ♠/NT inversion is a good idea. Hell, I play 2♠ as jacoby-type over hearts, play KI, play 3♠ as non-serious, 4♠ as ace asking ... why haven't I though of ♠/NT inversion for this sequence?

[mike777]

playing xyz you have the option of bidding 2c over 1s which forces 2d and then pass.
I note pard did not make a jump shift bid of 2s over 1h.

as others noted you also have the option of just forgetting about that h suit and bidding 1d esp with 7d and poor 4h. again if pard rebids 1s you can go through xyz to play in 2d.