[movingon]

KQ76
3
Q7
AJ10762


AJ985
Q6
A1086
K6


West opens 1 Heart, North overcalls 2 Clubs, East bids 4H........What is South's bid?

[billw55]

Vulnerability and form of scoring please.

[movingon]

I have asked the person who sent this hand to me those questions. I believe it is mp but I do not know the vulnerability. will post that when I find out.

[mikeh]

Hi

I'm pleased to see you posting again.

If what you are looking for is some guidance on what S should bid, my advice is that you give just the South hand and the auction.

There are some posters who, at least in my probably biased opinion, consistently choose actions that happen to work out well opposite a hand that has been set out. I'm not saying this is deliberate. I think it is almost impossible to ignore what we know when we are being asked what we would do. Some people are aware of this, and some people seem not to be.

Look at this problem: I was actually thinking of sending you this by pm and not posting, to see how many people bid 4♠, but the problem is that I think that 4♠ is a reasonable call And I have done my best to ignore the fact that it 'works' because partner has KQxx.

So waiting to see and then posting this wouldn't prove anything at all.

I can't be absolutely sure that I wouldn't just double at the table: give me the same hand but 4=2=5=2 and I'd double to announce ownership of the hand. This type of double isn't pure penalty: partner is allowed to pass and usually will but is allowed to bid on with shape. 4=0=3=6 would be an easy 4♠ in this style, but 4=1=2=6 isn't far off normal shape and so N might well choose to pass: again, the only way to get an unbiased view would have been to post the hand and an auction that has S doubling...and don't show the S hand.

Btw, on those infrequent hands on which S has a pure penalty double, the style I am suggesting means S has to pass. Many advancing players have real difficulty passing at the table when that arises.

[movingon]

mikeh, on 2013-January-31, 11:10, said:

Hi

I'm pleased to see you posting again.

If what you are looking for is some guidance on what S should bid, my advice is that you give just the South hand and the auction.

There are some posters who, at least in my probably biased opinion, consistently choose actions that happen to work out well opposite a hand that has been set out. I'm not saying this is deliberate. I think it is almost impossible to ignore what we know when we are being asked what we would do. Some people are aware of this, and some people seem not to be.

Look at this problem: I was actually thinking of sending you this by pm and not posting, to see how many people bid 4♠, but the problem is that I think that 4♠ is a reasonable call And I have done my best to ignore the fact that it 'works' because partner has KQxx.

So waiting to see and then posting this wouldn't prove anything at all.

I can't be absolutely sure that I wouldn't just double at the table: give me the same hand but 4=2=5=2 and I'd double to announce ownership of the hand. This type of double isn't pure penalty: partner is allowed to pass and usually will but is allowed to bid on with shape. 4=0=3=6 would be an easy 4♠ in this style, but 4=1=2=6 isn't far off normal shape and so N might well choose to pass: again, the only way to get an unbiased view would have been to post the hand and an auction that has S doubling...and don't show the S hand.

Btw, on those infrequent hands on which S has a pure penalty double, the style I am suggesting means S has to pass. Many advancing players have real difficulty passing at the table when that arises.

[movingon]

good advice about posting just the hand in question.... will do that in the future...

[billw55]

mikeh, I was thinking something similar. Seeing both hands, 4♠ is cold, and this can make it more difficult to evaluate south's possible 4♠ bid objectively. Personally, I don't think it is a good choice. I think double and 5♣ are candidates, and which is chosen may depend on conditions. Also I wonder if north might choose double instead of 2♣, to keep the spades in play and avoid the problem south faces.

[movingon]

sorry all... I just noticed that further down the page of the email I received was another statement accompanied by a question. So I guess we now have a play question.


N/S play 4S. Opps take A of hearts and then lead K of Hearts, both honors in West hand.
What is the best play to make 5 Spades?

[Cyberyeti]

movingon, on 2013-January-31, 11:27, said:

N/S play 4S. Opps take A of hearts and then lead K of Hearts, both honors in West hand.
What is the best play to make 5 Spades?

I'd double first, mainly T/O for us.

I'm not sure I wouldn't try to make 6 here. If clubs are 3-2 and spades 2-2/3-1 simply cashing A♠, playing clubs next from the top and ruffing high will make 6. You will make 5 if W ruffs the second club or discards. This will only make 4 if East has 3 spades and W has 4 clubs to the Q and K♦ as E ruffs K♣ and plays a diamond which you have to run.

[movingon]

It was mps and no one was vulnerable.
Why the question is how to play it for making 5, I don't know!

[billw55]

movingon, on 2013-January-31, 15:12, said:

It was mps and no one was vulnerable.
Why the question is how to play it for making 5, I don't know!

Probably they bid 5♠ over opponents 5♥.

[PhilKing]

I ruff and play a low spade to the jack. Does West show out? Assuming he does I continue ♣K, ♣ to the jack.

I think I'm OK without needing the transfer strip squeeze now.

[han]

I don't think that bidding 4S with the south hand is reasonable at all. I think it is a clear double and north has a clear 4S bid.

[movingon]

After the second heart was ruffed, everyone followed to a spade.

[PhilKing]

movingon, on 2013-February-01, 08:14, said:

After the second heart was ruffed, everyone followed to a spade.

It's simple now - you have to play on clubs without playing a second trump. If West follows to the second club, finesse. If West shows out, win and ruff a club high, cross to a trump and lead a fourth club throwing a diamond. Claim.

[movingon]

You will find that your lho has a stiff club

[PhilKing]

movingon, on 2013-February-01, 09:10, said:

You will find that your lho has a stiff club

That's OK - I have two fairly straightforward routes to 11 tricks now.

[gnasher]

han, on 2013-February-01, 07:23, said:

I don't think that bidding 4S with the south hand is reasonable at all. I think it is a clear double and north has a clear 4S bid.

I think that too, but isn't this difference because you and I play the double as "takeout" and Mike plays it as "ownership"?

[mikeh]

gnasher, on 2013-February-01, 10:21, said:

I think that too, but isn't this difference because you and I play the double as "takeout" and Mike plays it as "ownership"?

I think the interesting question is what would we have North do with 3=1=3=6, same honours, over a double.

Since that is a common hand (3145/4135 hands often double 1♥, thus somewhat constraining the likely shapes), our advancing style should try to accommodate that possibility if it can do so without too much distortion/risk.

I'm not claiming that 4♠ is 'clear', merely that it isn't unreasonable given the difficulties that one can envision opposite many overcalling hands.

If we place partner with 0-1 heart, as seems reasonable given our hcp and their bounce, the odds seem to favour partner owning 3 spades a significant amount of the time, and we may well survive Hx as well.

I suppose it boils down to how often we think that partner will hold 3 spades and not be willing to bid them over a double, compared to how often partner will be short in both majors (he is almost certainly passing no matter how short his spades are).

Btw, if I got doubled by LHO I would at least consider running to 4N to bring both minors into the picture. Tho I wouldn't do it in the future if it were Andy or Han who doubled, having read this post

[movingon]

PhilKing, on 2013-February-01, 09:04, said:

It's simple now - you have to play on clubs without playing a second trump. If West follows to the second club, finesse. If West shows out, win and ruff a club high, cross to a trump and lead a fourth club throwing a diamond. Claim.

Yes... that works--opps can take their club ruff and that is it...