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From the posts from my italian friends I remember that the only time I didnīt play support double on a serioous partnership it was playing with an italian.
He hated support doubles saying you have no bid with strong hands, so we swithced double to support double OR 16+, we didnīt had any problem with that, althou just played 81 boards.
Support Doubles Pro and Con
#21
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Posted 2004-December-18, 16:50
#22
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Posted 2004-December-18, 17:08
i prefer not to play them, but that's cause there's really no need
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Posted 2004-December-18, 19:21
Hannie, on Dec 19 2004, 05:01 AM, said:
The_Hog, on Dec 17 2004, 04:53 PM, said:
"Imprescindible". Wow, I like that word.
I find them a very useful adjunct to the system and like them. I won't say they are "Imprescindible", but they are certainly useful, and even more useful are the inferences when you DON'T make a support double. Remember, there is nothing to stop you from making a double and then bidding again!
Mike, regarding the argument that the opps know the level of your support - this is true, but they still don't know the level of your fit. I can also tell you that I have never missed a penalty double even though I play support doubles.
BTW Hanni, it is "tantamount".
I find them a very useful adjunct to the system and like them. I won't say they are "Imprescindible", but they are certainly useful, and even more useful are the inferences when you DON'T make a support double. Remember, there is nothing to stop you from making a double and then bidding again!
Mike, regarding the argument that the opps know the level of your support - this is true, but they still don't know the level of your fit. I can also tell you that I have never missed a penalty double even though I play support doubles.
BTW Hanni, it is "tantamount".
Sorry Ron, "tantamount"
BTW, Ron, it is Hannie. This would be a common Dutch pet name for me, but it sounds like "honey" in English.
Woops
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Posted 2004-December-18, 21:13
Support doubles are a mixed bag, and I think they are misused far too often than intended.
I use support doubles, but with the onus that "it's our hand/I want to compete". To aimless make one just muddles the waters, and we have no issue with 4-3's. We rather like them.
Also with support doubles, many argue the pro/con LOTT effectiveness. We (wife and I) tie support doubles in with LTC, not LOTT - our whole system is based on LTC.
We raise often with 3 to a high honor. We don't get overboard.
If anything, don't use them - causes way too many headaches because pard get stuck for a rebid a lot that is awkward.
I use support doubles, but with the onus that "it's our hand/I want to compete". To aimless make one just muddles the waters, and we have no issue with 4-3's. We rather like them.
Also with support doubles, many argue the pro/con LOTT effectiveness. We (wife and I) tie support doubles in with LTC, not LOTT - our whole system is based on LTC.
We raise often with 3 to a high honor. We don't get overboard.
If anything, don't use them - causes way too many headaches because pard get stuck for a rebid a lot that is awkward.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
#25
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Posted 2004-December-19, 07:51
I don't like to play 'pure' support Dbl's, I rather play these Dbl's as either support or negative (or both). This hasn't given me any problems so far in finding the right fit. However, support Dbl's are a nice tool if you're afraid of raising on a 3 card suit...
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Posted 2004-December-19, 09:57
keylime, on Dec 19 2004, 03:13 AM, said:
If anything, don't use them - causes way too many headaches because pard get stuck for a rebid a lot that is awkward.
I think this claim goes too far. I agree spt dbl and rdbl has its minus, but i think it has more plus. The time it causes headache is really not much compared to other conventions.
#27
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Posted 2004-December-19, 17:54
Free, on Dec 19 2004, 01:51 PM, said:
I don't like to play 'pure' support Dbl's, I rather play these Dbl's as either support or negative (or both). This hasn't given me any problems so far in finding the right fit. However, support Dbl's are a nice tool if you're afraid of raising on a 3 card suit...
I never raise with 3 cards, so that is not a problem to me
.
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Posted 2004-December-20, 23:40
Sorry guys but I disagree - often your pard has a poop major with 7-9 hcps and you hear this auction:
1m - P - 1M - dbl
Rdbl - P! - ?
Now what? Looks like the passer made a penalty pass to me!
Secondly, what about this one:
1m - X - 1M - dbl
rdbl - P! - ?
what's the redouble? is the double support or responsive?
Lastly, what about this gem:
1m - X - 1M - 3m
?
What's double, support or maximal or thrump?
Best to raise immediately and get on with it.
1m - P - 1M - dbl
Rdbl - P! - ?
Now what? Looks like the passer made a penalty pass to me!
Secondly, what about this one:
1m - X - 1M - dbl
rdbl - P! - ?
what's the redouble? is the double support or responsive?
Lastly, what about this gem:
1m - X - 1M - 3m
?
What's double, support or maximal or thrump?
Best to raise immediately and get on with it.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
#29
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Posted 2004-December-21, 04:56
There are no support Dbl's above 2♥ in my agreements, because of your last argument
First 2 deals you give: I like to play 1M in a 4-3 fit, especially when redoubled. I don't think these passes are penalty passes, just a forcing pass imo.
First 2 deals you give: I like to play 1M in a 4-3 fit, especially when redoubled. I don't think these passes are penalty passes, just a forcing pass imo.
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#30
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Posted 2004-December-21, 05:57
keylime, on Dec 21 2004, 05:40 AM, said:
Sorry guys but I disagree - often your pard has a poop major with 7-9 hcps and you hear this auction:
1m - P - 1M - dbl
Rdbl - P! - ?
Now what? Looks like the passer made a penalty pass to me!
Secondly, what about this one:
1m - X - 1M - dbl
rdbl - P! - ?
what's the redouble? is the double support or responsive?
Lastly, what about this gem:
1m - X - 1M - 3m
?
What's double, support or maximal or thrump?
Best to raise immediately and get on with it.
1m - P - 1M - dbl
Rdbl - P! - ?
Now what? Looks like the passer made a penalty pass to me!
Secondly, what about this one:
1m - X - 1M - dbl
rdbl - P! - ?
what's the redouble? is the double support or responsive?
Lastly, what about this gem:
1m - X - 1M - 3m
?
What's double, support or maximal or thrump?
Best to raise immediately and get on with it.
Nobody plays penalty passes here, willing to play a 1 level contract where oppoenents have at least 7 trumps and about half the deck in HCP is not very smart.
Anyway if they do you can saflly scape if you feel like it, jsut ask if thepass is penalty.
About a level 3 double the only problem comes when you have 2 or less ♥ and a midle hand (15-17) and you canīt rebid your minor, the others you can jsut get to game.
You may also use support double with 4 card support when your hand is invitational, something like KQx Jxxx x AQJxx you should use support double to see if partner stops in 3♥ or tries someting else.
#31
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Posted 2004-December-21, 14:07
You'd be surprised on how many around these parts play penalty passes. Quite a few.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali