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Jasmine Club Warning: Construction site

#1 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2013-January-23, 10:41

Thank you, Zelandakh, for your interest and advice. There are only three Jasmine partnerships, none of them current. Jasmine is a variation of Tsetse club. This is a skeleton that I intend to flesh out occasionally. Jasmine aims:
  • Consistent (even when that means technically inferior).
  • Major/notrump oriented (like MOSCITO).
  • Right-siding i.e. some contortions to right-side contracts. (like Transfers)
  • Mushroom principle e.g. asking bids rather than natural or relays. Keep them in the dark and feed them "****" (like Martens' Camouflage).
  • Pre-emptive. Probably technically unsound but exciting (like EHAA).
  • Weird - amusing bids of doubtful technical merit (like Bacon Torpedo).

Jasmine openers
  • 1 = ART, 16+
  • 1 = ART, 8-15 4+ /
  • 1M = NAT, 10-12 4+ cards or 10-15 5+ cards.
  • 1N = NAT 13-15 (Seats 1 & 2), 15-17 (seats 3 & 4)
  • 2 = NAT, 8-11, 4+ 5+ mm.
  • 2 = ART, 5-10, 6+ M (Multi).
  • 2M = NAT 8-11, 4 cards in bid suit, 5+ either m
  • 2N = ART, 5-10, 5+ , 5+ other
  • 3any = PRE, 5-10 good 6+ suit (seats 1/2), Anything (seat 3), Solid (seat 4).
  • 3N = ART, ASK for As or if that is too hard to remember then good major pre-empt.
  • 4any = PRE, Weak pre-empt.


Replies to Jasmine 1 - ??
  • 1 = NEG, 0-7
  • 1 = ART, 8+, 4+ . Then 1/1N= ASK.
  • 1 = ART, 8+, 4+ . Then 1N/ = ASK.
  • 1N = ART, 8+, 4+ both Ms. Then 2/2/2 = ASK.
  • 2 = ART, 8+, denies 4M. Then 2 = ASK.
  • 2 = ART, 5-7, Weak, 6+ either M (Multi). Then 2N = ASK.
  • 2 = ART, Weak 2 suiter, without . Then 2N = ASK.
  • 2N = ART, Weak 2 suiter, with . Then 3 =ASK.
  • 2/3/3/3 = TFR, good long suit, playable opposite a singleton
  • 3/4/4/4 = TFR, good long suit + void somewhere.


After 1 - 1 - ??
  • 1 = REL.
  • 1/2/2 = F/1, 4+ cards.
  • 1N = BAL, 16-18 (Rare singleton).
  • 2 = NAT. 2-suiter. 5+ , 5+other.
  • 2N = ART 2-suiter, not
  • 3any = Inv, 6+ cards.


After 1 - 1 - 1 - ??
  • 1 = ART. BAL 0-7 or shapely 5-7.
  • 1N = ART, 0-4, 5+ .
  • 2/2/2 = NAT, 0-4, 5+ cards.
  • 2 = 2-suiter. 5+, 5+other.
  • 2N = 2-suiter, not
  • 3any= Inv, 6+ cards.



After 1 - 1 - 1N - ??
  • 2 = ART 5 .
  • 2 = ART 6 .
  • 2 = ART 4 3 .
  • 2 = ART 4 2 .
  • 2N = ART 4144 or 41(53).
  • 3 = ART 4 0-1 6+ .
  • 3 = ART 3 0-1 6+ .
  • 3 = ART 4045.
  • 3 = ART 4054.


After 1 - 1 - 1N - ??
  • 2 = ART 5 .
  • 2 = ART 6 [6HE].
  • 2 = ART 4 3 .
  • 2 = ART 4 2 .
  • 2N= ART 4144 or 41(53).
  • 3 = ART 4 0-1 6+ .
  • 3 = ART 3 0-1 6+ .
  • 3 = ART 4045.
  • 3 = ART 3054.


After 1 - 1N - 2 - ??
  • 2 = 5+ 5+
  • 2 = 4 5 .
  • 2 = 5 5 .
  • 2N= 44(32)
  • 3 = 4441
  • 3 = 4414.
  • 3 = 4450.
  • 3 = 4405.


Replies to 1 - ??
  • 1M = F/1 4+ cards.
  • 1N = NAT.
  • 2 = ASK
  • 2/2/2/3 = TRF 6+ cards /.
  • 2N = ART. Weak 4+, 4+.
  • 3N = To play.


After 1 - 2 - ??
  • 2 = ART 12+. Then 2 = ASK.
  • 2 = NAT 9-12 5+ .
  • 2 = NAT 9-12 5+ .
  • 2N = BAL 10-12.
  • 3 = NAT 10-12 6+ .
  • 3 = NAT 10-12, 6+ .


After 1 - 2 - 2 - 2 - ??
  • 2 = 4
  • 2N =
  • 3 = NAT 13-15, 4 , 5+
  • 3 = NAT 13-15, 4 , 5+
  • 3 =
  • 3 =
  • 3N =


After 1 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 2N - ??
  • 3 = NAT 13-15, 4 , 5+
  • 3 = NAT 13-15, 4 , 5+
  • 3 = NAT 13-15, 4414
  • 3 = NAT 13-15, 4441
  • 3N = NAT 13-15, 4144


After 1 - 2 - 2 - 2N - ??
3 = Nat 4xy5
3 = Nat 4x5y
3 = Nat 4144

After 1 - 2 - 2 - 2 - ??
2 = Nat 10-12 4 4(441)
2N = Flat 10-12
3 = Nat 9-12 6+
3 = Nat 9-12 6+
3 = Nat 4 1444.

Replies to 1 - ??
  • 1 = NAT.
  • 1N = NAT
  • 2 = ASK
  • 2 = ART. Good 3 card raise.
  • 2/3/4 = PRE,.
  • 2N = ART 4+ card raise to 3/5
  • 2/3/3 = SPL 4+ card raise to 3/5.
  • 3N = Art. 4+ support. = ART 4+ card raise to 4. Mild slam interest.
  • 3/4/4 = SPL 4+ card raise to 4. Mild slam interest


Similar replies to 1 - ??
  • 1N = Nat.
  • 2 = ASK.
  • 2 = TRF 5+ .
  • 2 = ART Good 3 card support.
  • 2/3/4 = PRE non-constructive.
  • 2N = ART. 4+ card raise to 3/5.
  • 3/3/3 = SPL. 4+ card raise to 3/5.
  • 3N = ART. 4+ card raise to 4. Mild slam interest.
  • 4/4/4 = Splinter. 4+ support. Sound raise to 4. Mild slam interest


Replies to 2 - ??
  • 2 = NAT Preference.
  • 2M = F/1 5+ cards.
  • 2N = ASK.
  • 3m = PRE.
  • 3M = F/J, 5+ bid M, 4+ m.
  • 3N = Nat to play.


Replies to 2M - ??
  • 2/3 OM = INV 6+ cards.
  • 2N = ASK.
  • 3m = P/C.
  • 3M = INV.
  • 3N = S/O.


Tsetse asking bids
  • Client asks questions (usually 1 opener or responder to other bids or likely declarer)
  • Server answers (usually dummy or notrump bidder or hand that has already started to describe itself).


First ask usually sets trumps and asks for key-cards (0/3, 1/4. 2, 2+Q).
Sometimes asks are optional and sometimes there are 6 aces. e.g. 1 (nat) - 3(splinter) - 3(trial-bid and optional 6-ask). Both major kings are are keys. - 3 reply denies interest.
Subsequently, New suit asks are for control in that suit.
Replies: Cheaper of notrump and agreed suit = No. Cheapest other bid = Yes. Other bids = Yes + control in this suit. Raise of ask = Yes + control in "cheapest other suit".
If server splinters and then shows control in the same suit, it is a void.
Notrump asks are for trump queen, extra length, and tricks. Similar replies.
When a minor is agreed, however, then 3N is to play.
Server can volunteer information unasked. e.g. 1(nat) - 2N(Pudding raise) - 4(5+ good ) - 5(4 keys) - 5(no interest) - 6 (and K) - 6 (still no interest) - 6N (one last try, NF) - 7(OK, twist my arm).

Blatant plagiarism http://www.bridgebas...enalty-doubles/

Example hands<br><ul class="bbc"><li><a http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/57873-deal-1/page__view__findpost__p__699897" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #01

href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/57883-deal-2/page__view__findpost__p__699901" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #02 href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/57893-deal-3/page__view__findpost__p__699905" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #03</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/57907-deal-4/page__view__findpost__p__699908" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #04</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/57934-deal-5/page__view__findpost__p__699909" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #05</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/57952-deal-6/page__view__findpost__p__698977" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #06</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/57972-deal-7/page__view__findpost__p__698235" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #07</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/57987-deal-8/page__view__findpost__p__699355" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #08</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58002-deal-9/page__view__findpost__p__698974" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #09</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58021-deal-10/page__view__findpost__p__699884" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #10</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58043-deal-11/page__view__findpost__p__700327" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #11</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58062-deal-12/page__view__findpost__p__699653" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #12</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58090-deal-13/page__view__findpost__p__699874" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #13</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58106-deal-14/page__view__findpost__p__700194" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #14</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58135-deal-15/page__view__findpost__p__700461" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #15</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58147-deal-16/page__view__findpost__p__700835" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #16</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58164-deal-17/page__view__findpost__p__701020" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #17</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58178-deal-18/page__view__findpost__p__701024" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #18</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58191-deal-19/page__view__findpost__p__701157" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #19</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58198-deal-20/page__view__findpost__p__701420" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #20</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58220-deal-21/page__view__findpost__p__701737" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #21</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58240-deal-22/page__view__findpost__p__702132" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #22</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58241-deal-23/page__view__findpost__p__702142" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #23</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58259-deal-24/page__view__findpost__p__702684" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #24</a></li><li><a href="http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/58300-deal-25/page__view__findpost__p__702775" class="bbc_url" title="">Straube #25</a></li></ul>
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#2 User is offline   the_clown 

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Posted 2013-January-23, 17:11

This sounds like a lot of fun. If I had more free time and a partner willing to learn it I would give it a try.
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#3 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-January-24, 03:40

I do not think you ever published your complete Tsetse Club structure but I do recognise the 2 bid structure. It seems like you kept it except for removing the 16+ 4441 hands from 2. I guess that was a change based on not worrying about system regs rather than anything structural. I do have my concerns about the 1 opening, as in the other thread, but unfortunately this will not show up in straube's hands so I will not get to see how you solve this. Perhaps in an "Interesting Hand" sometime. The 1 - 2 structure should get a decent test here though - it will be interesting to see if the overloading costs as any point.

One thing I have noticed from the first few hands is that you use the direct RKCB method, even down to the 2 level. This is one area where I think you might get problems at the table, since many times this will result in an auction where you know you have enough key cards for slam but not whether there is enough general strength or enough tricks. My suggestion would be to add a Frivolous step to the 2 and 3 level RKCB asks in the same way as I do for minors at the 4 level. Then if there is actually no slam interest there will be a sign off (no key card information given away) and if there is you have only lost a couple of steps.

If we take Hand 4 for example:

North A762 K6 JT83 J76
South QT QJ8 AKQ9 KT93

After:

1 - 1;
1NT - 2;
2, North could bid 2 to show a bad hand for slam and now South can simply sign off. With a good hand for slam, North would give key card responses 1 step higher. Not such a big disadvantage when you are starting at 2, especially as the good/bad information is potentially useful in the ensuing slam auction.

Obviously, I personally think that distribution information is more important here, otherwise I would play something like this myself. However, this fits well with your mushroom principle and, in single dummy bidding at least, will probably end up improving slam bidding accuracy. obviously it is not something you can easily test at present without a current Jasmine partner but perhaps you can put it somewhere on your list of ideas.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#4 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2013-January-24, 06:43

View PostZelandakh, on 2013-January-24, 03:40, said:

I do not think you ever published your complete Tsetse Club structure but I do recognise the 2 bid structure. It seems like you kept it except for removing the 16+ 4441 hands from 2. I guess that was a change based on not worrying about system regs rather than anything structural. I do have my concerns about the 1 opening, as in the other thread, but unfortunately this will not show up in straube's hands so I will not get to see how you solve this. Perhaps in an "Interesting Hand" sometime. The 1 - 2 structure should get a decent test here though - it will be interesting to see if the overloading costs as any point.

One thing I have noticed from the first few hands is that you use the direct RKCB method, even down to the 2 level. This is one area where I think you might get problems at the table, since many times this will result in an auction where you know you have enough key cards for slam but not whether there is enough general strength or enough tricks. My suggestion would be to add a Frivolous step to the 2 and 3 level RKCB asks in the same way as I do for minors at the 4 level. Then if there is actually no slam interest there will be a sign off (no key card information given away) and if there is you have only lost a couple of steps.

If we take Hand 4 for example:

North A762 K6 JT83 J76
South QT QJ8 AKQ9 KT93

After:

1 - 1;
1NT - 2;
2, North could bid 2 to show a bad hand for slam and now South can simply sign off. With a good hand for slam, North would give key card responses 1 step higher. Not such a big disadvantage when you are starting at 2, especially as the good/bad information is potentially useful in the ensuing slam auction.

Obviously, I personally think that distribution information is more important here, otherwise I would play something like this myself. However, this fits well with your mushroom principle and, in single dummy bidding at least, will probably end up improving slam bidding accuracy. obviously it is not something you can easily test at present without a current Jasmine partner but perhaps you can put it somewhere on your list of ideas.
Zelandakh is right. Thank you. I've played low-level key-card bids for over 30 years. For example, we broke transfers to show key-cards, The method is crude and simple. When there are too few keycards, they can prevent risky 5-level excursions. On the other-hand, as Zelandakh implies, slams depend on more than just key-cards.

It's a good idea to agree a basic terminology. The "Client" or "Master" asks. The "Server" or "Slave" answers.
  • Zelandakh's solution seems a good idea. I've played low-level "optional asks" in the past (at the insistence of a former partner). They work well. The Server can sign-off, initially, with an unsuitable hand e.g. after 1 - 1; 1NT - 2; 2, the server would rebid 3 (the trump suit, and out of range) to show lack of interest. But 2 (Herbert neg), as Zelandakh suggests seems better
  • Similarly, the client can sometimes make initial asking bid with a jump, as a serious slam-try.
  • We play further low-level asking bids (notrump bids ask in trumps, suit bids ask in the suit) and they can help. I have added the gist of these to the OP.
  • Also when the asker signs-off (or make a waiting bid), responder can make another effort, with extra values.

This post has been edited by nige1: 2013-January-26, 12:09

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