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Modern bidding in the sandwhich seat ? vs light opening and responses

#1 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 07:06

Hi all,
I'd like to know from the experts what strategy they adopt in the sandwhich seat after 1 over 1 auctions by opps.

Textbook strategy is to be extremely cautious:

- avoid "natural" 1NT overcall
- bid only with distributional hands
- avoid bidding with flat hands (or hands with honor concentration in opps suits), even if the hand is strong in hcp.

The rationale behind this is that one opp has opened and the other has responded, so it is likely that pard is broke if we have a good hand but poor shape.

This strategy holds quite well assuming that opps open with sound openings (say 13 hcp or a good 12) and respond 1/1 guaranteeing 5/6+ hcp.

But nowadays, many pairs open routinely, event 1st/2nd seat, with as low as 9-10 point count (with decent shape).
And, many pairs respond 1M over pards' 1m opening, even with JTxxx and nothing else.

This fact seems to suggest that sandwhich bidding tactics should be revised, when playing against very light bidders.
What is your strategy in those cases ?
e.g.

1) you KNOW your opps open and respond light
2) you only suspect opps might be opening and responding light (even more dangerous)

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#2 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 08:34

This has been a topic amongst the commentators whilst I've been watching Vugraph a few times this year. There certainly appears to a trend back to showing a strong balanced hand with 1NT and 2-level cuebids being natural, leaving double to show the other two suits.

Personally I'm still quite happy to play the sandwich 1NT as a distributional 2-suiter and leave double as a more balanced takeout.

In terms of system modification, we do not change the system based on the opponents although style may vary. This means against a very aggressive pair we are more likely to double on balanced 13 counts.
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#3 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 09:12

Chamaco, on Dec 11 2004, 04:06 PM, said:

Hi all,
I'd like to know from the experts what strategy they adopt in the sandwhich seat after 1 over 1 auctions by opps.

Textbook strategy is to be extremely cautious:

- avoid "natural" 1NT overcall
- bid only with distributional hands
- avoid bidding with flat hands (or hands with honor concentration in opps suits), even if the hand is strong in hcp.

The rationale behind this is that one opp has opened and the other has responded, so it is likely that pard is broke if we have a good hand but poor shape.

This strategy holds quite well assuming that opps open with sound openings (say 13 hcp or a good 12) and respond 1/1 guaranteeing 5/6+ hcp.

But nowadays, many pairs open routinely, event 1st/2nd seat, with as low as 9-10 point count (with decent shape).
And, many pairs respond 1M over pards' 1m opening, even with JTxxx and nothing else.

This fact seems to suggest that sandwhich bidding tactics should be revised, when playing against very light bidders.
What is your strategy in those cases ?
e.g.

1) you KNOW your opps open and respond light
2) you only suspect opps might be opening and responding light (even more dangerous)

I've seen a fair amount of discussion on this topic. As I recall, Larry Cohen was the first player I saw suggesting this, however, I have not idea whether he originated the concept.

There is probably some truth to the idea, however, I am still using 1NT as Sandwich...
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#4 User is offline   Gerben47 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 09:29

It seems to me that IF the strong NT hand comes up and you bid it, your LHO will already have a good picture of the HCPs in the hand, which means you will play 1NTx a lot. I doubt that is good with the strong hand behind you. And he knows what to lead as well!
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#5 User is offline   flytoox 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 10:08

Perhaps it is time to swithc the meanig of dbl and 1NT, i.e, 1N for shape takeout, x only shows strength. With shapy hand, you are willing to commit to play, but x is more flexible when u have strength.
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#6 User is offline   mikestar 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 10:32

In defending against light openings with light responses, it pays to be more agressive with shape. This is especially true if the opening is limited as in Precision or even more so Moscito. I think conservatism is still the best course with shapeless hands and with length/strength in the enemy suits. True they are less likely to be able to hurt us since they are weaker--but we are more likely to be able to hurt them.

In terms of methods, after (1D)-P-(1S) for example:

X=4-4+ hearts and clubs, good defense
1N=4 hearts, 5+ clubs, good defense
2C= natural
2D=5-5+ hearts and clubs, poor defense
2H=natural
2S=natural
2N=4 hearts, usually 6+ clubs, poor defense.

This separates the shapely hands according to defensive strength and also separtes the two suiters from the long minor/4 card major hands. There are two reason for using 2D rather than 2S for the two-suiter with poor defense:

1. It's cheaper.
2. If there is a stack in the enemy suit youbid naturally, with responders suit it is in front of you, with opener's suit it is behind you.
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#7 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 11:05

why not have x show the 2nd suit? (1d) p (1s) x for instance... 1nt can show 9 cards in the unbid suits with longer or better clubs, 2d is free to show the same with longer or better hearts... 2c is natural and 2h is natural

the reason for x to show spades in that example is two-fold.. to expose a psych and to suggest a place to play.. i know it's 'standard' to play 2s there as natural, but i think it's unnecessarily high
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#8 User is offline   Antoine Fourrière 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 12:29

I think 1N should be natural, to play, but suggesting both tricks and points, although the stoppers are irrelevant. After 1 1, something like
Ax AQJx Kx KQxx
xx QJ9x AKTx AJT
Ax Ax xx KQJTxx
Hand 1 is strong enough. Hand 2 and 3 become very good if partner has 5 HCP.
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#9 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 12:41

Quote

After 1♦ 1♠, something like
♠ Ax ♥ AQJx ♦ Kx ♣ KQxx
♠ xx ♥ QJ9x ♦ AKTx ♣ AJT
♠ Ax ♥ Ax ♦ xx ♣KQJTxx


playing the way i play, hand 1 is close to a 1nt overcall, hand 2 is a pass, hand 3 is a 2c bid... 1s is forcing, wait for opener to rebid .... imo only hand 3 is good (shapely) enough for an immediate overcall
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#10 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-December-11, 13:49

I got this treatment from my teammates:

1N is sandwich; usually 5-4 in the unbids.
2N is 5-5 in the unbids; depending on vulnerability.

Dbl tends to show points and does not guarantee 4-4 in the unbids. Its frequently a strong NT overcall or it may show 4 of an unbid suit and 4 of opener's minor for instance.
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#11 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2004-December-11, 21:16

i play 1N is natural, both cuebids are natural and X is suspect B) 2N is also an option for good distributional hands.
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#12 User is offline   PriorKnowledge 

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Posted 2004-December-12, 09:11

I play Sandwich 1N natural and strong. After all, you still have q-bids in 2 suits & 2N available.
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