[jmunday]

I'm accustomed to GIB's occasional flights of fancy but every once in a while I see
an auction that blows me away. Holding --- Jxxxxx --- JT98xxx, GIB pulled out the
green (pass) card after I opened 2N.

[pigpenz]

probably Lot of hands where 3NT might make

[Leo LaSota]

I opened 2nt as well and played it there when the robot did not transfer to hearts with 6 hearts and 7 clubs and 2 jacks. I believe that the robots are misprogrammed on certain auctions if you make a "non-standard" bid. Of course the hand that we held for our 2nt opener was 4360 shape.

[fred]

Leo LaSota, on 2012-December-23, 16:58, said:

I opened 2nt as well and played it there when the robot did not transfer to hearts with 6 hearts and 7 clubs and 2 jacks. I believe that the robots are misprogrammed on certain auctions if you make a "non-standard" bid. Of course the hand that we held for our 2nt opener was 4360 shape.

Sorry if I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, Leo, but I can assure you that GIB will bid the same way over a 2NT opening that was made on a "textbook hand" as it will over a 2NT opening that was made on some "unusual hand".

GIB has rules that tells it what to bid with various hand types in many auctions (including responding to a 2NT opening bid). If a given hand type in a given auction is not covered by any rules, strange things can happen. Naturally this sort of thing tends to happen more either when GIB holds an unusual hand or when a rare auction takes place (since its rules are fairly comprehensive when it has a relatively normal hand and when the auction is relatively common).

We have been working hard at improving GIB's bidding rules during the past few years. I expect we will continue to do so for the forseeable future. The way GIB selects a call when there are no applicable rules definitely has room for improvement (easier said than done, but I am guessing we will try to address this issue at some point).

I hope this helps to explain what happened on the hand in question.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Leo LaSota]

Fred,

I realize that GIB programming is setup to have the same meanings for follow up bids on any auction that begins in the same way. Therefore, any hand that begins with the auction 2nt - Pass - to the robot is expected to have the same meanings regardless of what the human player actually holds for their 2nt bid. However, I have have seen an auction in the past in which the responding hand transferred to 3 of a major with a weak hand over a 2nt opener. I have also seen the robot Texas on weak but distributional hands. Therefore, it was certainly odd to see the 0607 dummy on the auction 2nt all pass. I assume that this particular hand was just an odd case that has yet to be programmed into GIB.

I know that there has been alot of effort into updating the programming on GIB. I have seen great improvement in many auctions for GIB in the last year. One auction that has not been corrected so far is that GIB rarely uses Gerber to ask for number of aces. I see many hands where after a strong nt auction that begins with a 2nt opener or better, the robot just jumps to 7 without asking for aces.

fred, on 2012-December-23, 19:31, said:

Sorry if I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, Leo, but I can assure you that GIB will bid the same way over a 2NT opening that was made on a "textbook hand" as it will over a 2NT opening that was made on some "unusual hand".

GIB has rules that tells it what to bid with various hand types in many auctions (including responding to a 2NT opening bid). If a given hand type in a given auction is not covered by any rules, strange things can happen. Naturally this sort of thing tends to happen more either when GIB holds an unusual hand or when a rare auction takes place (since its rules are fairly comprehensive when it has a relatively normal hand and when the auction is relatively common).

We have been working hard at improving GIB's bidding rules during the past few years. I expect we will continue to do so for the forseeable future. The way GIB selects a call when there are no applicable rules definitely has room for improvement (easier said than done, but I am guessing we will try to address this issue at some point).

I hope this helps to explain what happened on the hand in question.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Bbradley62]

GIB apparently doesn't like two-suiters opposite big NTs:
http://www.bridgebas...23-35-hcp-game/

[chasetb]

And GIB loves to bid 6NT when you might not even have 33 HCP. Sure I might have overbid a HCP, but why can't I use Stayman, and why could I still have 5 Hearts, or 5 Spades, or more than 23 points in this link? I think I would have bid on if I had that, or if I had distribution I would have bid natrually.

[Bbradley62]

chasetb, on 2012-December-25, 16:42, said:

And GIB loves to bid 6NT when you might not even have 33 HCP. Sure I might have overbid a HCP, but why can't I use Stayman, and why could I still have 5 Hearts, or 5 Spades, or more than 23 points in this link? I think I would have bid on if I had that, or if I had distribution I would have bid natrually.

The vast majority of advanced and expert players love to bid 6NT when they "might not even have 33 HCP". Maintaining a strict 33 HCP requirement is very caveman of you. I would expect your 3N rebid to show a hand that intended to rebid 2N, if allowed, after opening 2♣, showing 22-24HCP. North has an automatic 6N bid opposite that with his 10 HCP and (admittedly crappy) 5-card suit. In fact, at most other tables, South opened 2N (20-21HCP), North invited with 4N, and South accepted with the max. Of course, if your GIB partner had simply played the hand as well as the four humans listed at the top of the traveller and made the contract, we wouldn't be discussing this.

But, I do see one thing worth asking about... At another table:

---

It appears that neither of you is using the download version of BBO, since both of your bid descriptions get cut off. Likely, one is using advanced GIBs ($1/day) and the other is using basic GIBs ($1/week). Which are you?

[chasetb]

I am using the basic GIB, and with BALANCED hands you want 33 HCP. A 5-card suit helps a little bit, but a toothless 5-card suit isn't worth anything unless you can find out partner has the top honors and/or a nice 5-card suit as well. And with GIB playing the hand, you bet I want at least 33 HCP.

I know from experience that you can make 6NT on far less than 33 HCP, but you need well fitting hands, and sometimes a little luck. I've made 6NT on 29 HCP before, and 7NT on 31 HCP. I just think it's terrible that even with a 2NT opener (which I implied in my post was the correct bid), GIB is inviting in NT without a proper hand. I also think the 3NT rebid is wrong - I should be limited to 23 HCP and/or 23 total points, as with any other hand I will be making a different bid.

I am also surprised that you called me a caveman. Being both a Junior (for a few more days anyway) and playing a modern Precision, I don't think that term applies to me in the slightest.

[georgi]

jmunday, on 2012-December-23, 12:32, said:

I'm accustomed to GIB's occasional flights of fancy but every once in a while I see
an auction that blows me away. Holding --- Jxxxxx --- JT98xxx, GIB pulled out the
green (pass) card after I opened 2N.

Bug has been fixed in next version(v26).

Would find the high transfer or lower transfer depend on the TP it contains.

Here GIB would bid 4♦ - !Texas -- 6+ ♥; 5+ total points