[JSilver]

North: AJ98, Kxx, K, KQJxx
South: KQT, xx, A987x, xxx

At our table, with the opponents silent, the auction went (starting with north) 1C-1D-1S-P. One spade made 5 with less than best defense. The majority of the field was in 3NT making 3 or 4, though we had some company.

It seems there are a lot of different ways to bid these hands, none of them entirely satisfactory. Should south ignore diamonds in favor of 1NT? Should north jump to 2S or 2NT over 1D? (South would probably bypass diamonds with a minimum and a 4-card major.) As the auction went, what should south do on the second round?

[Codo]

Hi J,

North: AJ98, Kxx, K, KQJxx
South: KQT, xx, A987x, xxx

At our table, with the opponents silent, the aution went (starting with north) 1C-1D-1S-P


South did really PASS after 1 Spade?

I am sorry , but to post this in an SAYC/ 2/1 threat is not right. You cannot pass 1 Spade in that systems. PD may have many extras and so it is here.
If you play a system, where his bidding limits his hand to 15, you may pass, but here, he may still have up to 19 systematically.

The bidding is "easy"
1 Club 1 Diamond
1 Spade 1 NT
2 NT 3 NT

Okay, played from North, 3 NT would be much better.
So, after the announced Heart lead, you need Hearts 4-4 and the ace offside, or a less then perfect defence.

There are other possible contracts and biddings.
So, 5 Club or 4 Spade are in the picture too.
The later should be the best spot this time.

For the question about bypassing the diamonds:
You could, but why should you?

Kind Regards

Roland

[the hog]

Hmm very interesting. I expect there will be a lot of discussion on this thread. I have just been having an argument with the "Sinister Minister" on this very topic. The truth of the matter is Roland, that in old fashioned Acol, sayc or approach forcing the given sequence is NOT forcing.

Please note before 5 million people flame me here, I did say old fashioned. The other truth is that no strong player that I knows still plays this way.

The other point is that on the shown hand, South had far too much to pass. The pass would usually have been made on something like
Qxx xxx KTxxx xx, especially when you were playing with somebody whose bidding here did not promise 5C and 4S, so the preference to 2C could be a disaster. Today most strong players will open 1C and rebid 1NT with a 4234 shape and the given sequence would show 5C and 4S.

Anyway enough said; playing with a sensible pd I would bid 3C with this hand of concentrated hons. Playing with someone who could have 4324 or worse still 4333, I would bid 1NT - H stopper be damned.

With regard to by passing 1D - well a lot of players play Walsh, which imho is a great way to play, (transfer Walsh even better), so playing transfer W you would bid 1S on this hand to show Ds - but that is another story altogether. I guess we are talking about a 1NT bid here rather than 1D. I have no great objections to this other than the fact your hons are concentrated and if NT is the final contract it is probably better for partner to declare. Nothing wrong with 1D though.

[bglover]

Two points: 1st, I agree that passing is wrong as partner can have up to 18 here and this particular hand doesnt even need that much to have a good chance at 3nt.

But, secondly, with a GOOD 9 points and 3 spade honors theres not a thing wrong with a raise to 2s with this hand... I would not hesitate to bid it here and you will find the good 4spade game. This hand is very close to a 3spade raise as a matter of fact.

There is not law that says you must play an 8 card fit in game. With wonderful fitting honors, a ruffing value AND an ace this hand's value improved markedly when partner bid spades.

Remove the queen of spades and replace it with the deuce and then maybe pass is ok here... this hand is way too good to give up.

[luis]

1 over 1 is forcing.

[inquiry]

1D response if fine

How I bid this hand.

1 Club - 1 Diamond
1 Spade - 2 Spades
4 Spade - Pass

If over my 2-Spade raise, partner suggest 2NT. I would raise to 3NT. And clearly partner will not pass, so we get play some game and then move on to the next hand....

(After playing in as many 3-3 fits as I have, a 4-3 fit is a luxury. Besides, here partner gets to play in the 4-3 fit. )

[junyi_zhu]

If one plays walsh style response, I believe she should also garantee
unbalanced shape for the opener when she rebids 1 M. That's an easy cure for this hand: 2C by responder is automatic. Even if you don't play 1S garantee 4-5 in black suits, 2C would still be nomal here. 1S can be passed only when responder holds short clubs, around 5-6 HCP.
I don't play the traditional walsh style reponse. I bid 1D over
1C with invitational hands as well, because over partner's possible
1NT rebid, we still can check back his major suit by this sequence:
1C 1D
1N 2C(relay to 2D)
2D 2M(invitational hands)

1C 1D
1N 2D¡¡¡¡game forcing.

1C 1D
1N 2M game forcing.

1M rebid by opner garantees unblanced shape.
We also play it over 1D opening.
so
1D 1H
1S: unblanced.

With 4-3-4-2, we usually bid 1NT or 2H. We may miss some
good partial, but it improves game and slam bidding.

[bglover]

Regarding the bypassing diamonds part of your post...

It is a very common treatment to play the sequence 1c-1N shows precisely 9-11 HCP and no 4 card major, with balanced shape of course. I play this with most of my partners. A jump to 2N shows a good 11 (AAK) or 12 points and a 3n bid shows 13-15.

If you care to play this, then the 1D bid becomes less well defined, since all bad hands without a 4 card major start with a 1D bid. Some people play (this is an old treatment that I still see) that, even in a standard treatment, 1C is forcing... with a bad hand responder bids 1D, with a real hand with real diamonds he bids 2D (undefined point count, but not a bust).

There are a lot of variations on this if you care to investigate it.

[JRG]

I'm with the

1C 1D
1S 2S

bidders. Yes, many years ago I played Acol, but even then I would not have dreamt of passing.