[straube]

Partner opens 2D showing 6+ diamonds and 10-15 hcps. No major

2D (2S) ?

All vul mps

xx xxxx AKxx xxx

How many diamonds should I bid?

Obviously, I think they can make 4S. Can I talk them out of it? Can I solicit partner's opinion as to whether to sacrifice? I have lots of losers.

[the hog]

straube, on 2012-November-30, 02:01, said:

Partner opens 2D showing 6+ diamonds and 10-15 hcps. No major

2D (2S) ?

All vul mps

xx xxxx AKxx xxx

How many diamonds should I bid?

Obviously, I think they can make 4S. Can I talk them out of it? Can I solicit partner's opinion as to whether to sacrifice? I have lots of losers.

I would pass. Any Diamond bid is likely to help them diagnose a fit.

[billw55]

I bid 3♦. Partner's opening is not weak, and must have most of its values outside diamonds. I am competing for the partscore rather than sacrificing or preempting, and I don't automatically assume they can make 4♠.

[P_Marlowe]

4D.

This should invite partner to sacrifice, if he has a suitable hand.

The downside of the bid is, you dont get a feeling how confident they
have made the 4S, if 4S comes back to you, besides table feeling.


With kind regards
Marlowe

[quiddity]

I think passing is pretty bad; it definitely loses when partner has a distributional hand which could have saved over 4♠, and it probably won't stop them from getting to their par contract. In particular it allows LHO to splinter. I think it's better to bid at least 4♦ to take away the cuebid.

[steve2005]

the hog, on 2012-November-30, 04:13, said:

I would pass. Any Diamond bid is likely to help them diagnose a fit.

i agree - no defense
but can opp bid 4S if you dont anounce diamond fit, i say lets see if they can before sacking

feel free to bid 5D if they bid 4s but expect to be -3 so im not, you have little ruffing potential

[the hog]

quiddity, on 2012-November-30, 13:19, said:

I think passing is pretty bad; it definitely loses when partner has a distributional hand which could have saved over 4♠, and it probably won't stop them from getting to their par contract. In particular it allows LHO to splinter. I think it's better to bid at least 4♦ to take away the cuebid.

I think bidding is pretty bad. Later with more experience you will learn to pass.

[jillybean]

I voted 3♦ but would bid 4, passing is for whimps and Aussie's. Perhaps when I have more experience I will have to eat my words.

[SteveMoe]

4♦
10+ trumps.
Too sheepish to try 3♠ 'cuz with my luck partner will have the max and bid 5♦ with no play. 3♠ has the best shot at keeping them quiet.

[MrAce]

I'd bid 3 ♦

Who knows maybe pd has something like

Axx xx QJxxxx AK

and bids 3NT

[gszes]

playing your system --- I would bid 3s asking p to bid 3n with a spade stop.
I do not want to sacrifice higher than 4d with this hand and I am willing to
"risk" and undoubled down 2 or even 3 in 3n if p is min and has a spade
stop. If p is near top 3n should have excellent play.


the range of your 2d bid is pretty large and it make competitive decisions
difficult and at IMPS we strive to bid vul games when we can. A simple
3d or 4d does little to inhibit opps from bidding the 4s we fear (it might
do more to help them than hinder them). A 3s bid might.

Pass is my second alternative and I would pass if the upper range of the
2d bid was just a tad smaller. I cannot get myself to pass here when there is
still a fair chance we belong in game.

[PhilKing]

Just bid 5♦. This has more than one way to be legitimately right, and makes it super-hard for the opponents to judge even when we are wrong.

[quiddity]

Whoops! I didn't notice that 2♦ shows 10-15. Passing makes a lot more sense to me now with the opponents likely having to stretch for game. I'd probably still raise, though.

[the hog]

PhilKing, on 2012-December-01, 11:29, said:

Just bid 5♦. This has more than one way to be legitimately right, and makes it super-hard for the opponents to judge even when we are wrong.

And a lot more to be wrong. My guess is that most times you will play 5DX off 1 or 2, certainly doubled; so -200 or 500. Not good scores to bring back to partner. Perhaps you could add them to the minus you got for bidding 3H in the other thread.

This thread reminds me of a very old bidding problem which I will post in a separate thread so as not to hijak this one.

[silvr bull]

straube, on 2012-November-30, 02:01, said:

Obviously, I think they can make 4S. Can I talk them out of it?

This is my view too, and I want to take the action that will most likely keep the bidding at the 3 level. If I pass 2♠ and LHO raises to 3♠, that will invite his partner to advance to 4. My choice is to bid 3♦, so a 3♠ call by LHO will be seen as competing rather than invitational.

[billw55]

Hog, I admit to not understanding why concealing our fit is such a good thing. The opponent with the stiff diamond knows he has it whether I raise or not. Can you elaborate?

In particular, passing gives lefty 3♦ which could be a very effective call for them. What is the gain of passing to offset this?

I am also intrigued by gszes' 3♠, a sort of bluff call suggesting more than we have, which does not seem so bad when partner has made a limited opening bid. I guess the risk of that depends on whether partner will bypass 4♦ to cuebid hearts.

[Codo]

I really like the problem and have no idea which way will get us to the best score in the long run.

-passing is good if they stop in a partial and have game, but bad if just they and our partial is making.
-3 ♦ is good, if they just compete to 3 ♠ and this is a better score for us then 4 ♠ or higher.
-3 ♠ will win, if we make 3 NT (Kxx,Axx,xxxxxx,Axx is unlikely but far from impossible...) or if they do not belive that 4 ♠ is a cheap sacrifice.
-4♦ wins, if 3 Spaded is the limit or if this invites partner to find a good sacrifice or maybe even a double...

Right now I vote for 3 ♦, looking at the opps may change my vote...

[655321]

PhilKing, on 2012-December-01, 11:29, said:

Just bid 5♦. This has more than one way to be legitimately right, and makes it super-hard for the opponents to judge even when we are wrong.

Agree with this.

Not sure how much experience I need before I learn to pass instead, but hopefully it will never happen!

[the hog]

billw55, on 2012-December-03, 07:54, said:

Hog, I admit to not understanding why concealing our fit is such a good thing. The opponent with the stiff diamond knows he has it whether I raise or not. Can you elaborate?

In particular, passing gives lefty 3♦ which could be a very effective call for them. What is the gain of passing to offset this?

I am also intrigued by gszes' 3♠, a sort of bluff call suggesting more than we have, which does not seem so bad when partner has made a limited opening bid. I guess the risk of that depends on whether partner will bypass 4♦ to cuebid hearts.

Bidding 3♦ shows the opponents that this is virtually a 30 point deck. If you pass, the location of the ♦ honours is somewhat hazy. 3D is not so bad, as partner MIGHT have the magic hand an be able to bid 3NT. This is highly unlikely of course and a more likely scenario is the one I have predicted above. However, each to his own.
Ax
Ax
Qxxxxx
Axx

Obviously 5D is a losing call.

[Zelandakh]

the hog, on 2012-December-03, 21:20, said:

Ax
Ax
Qxxxxx
Axx

I strongly suspect that straube would have opened 1NT rather than 2♦ with this hand.