We were playing a simple form of 2/1. North said South's hand wasn't good enough to open and that South shouldn't lead the ♥6. South said North shouldn't have doubled 3♥, and could have passed or bid clubs or diamonds.
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Who was most to blame?
#1
Posted 2012-November-30, 16:40
I had a disagreement with a pick-up partner on this hand:
We were playing a simple form of 2/1. North said South's hand wasn't good enough to open and that South shouldn't lead the ♥6. South said North shouldn't have doubled 3♥, and could have passed or bid clubs or diamonds.
We were playing a simple form of 2/1. North said South's hand wasn't good enough to open and that South shouldn't lead the ♥6. South said North shouldn't have doubled 3♥, and could have passed or bid clubs or diamonds.
#2
Posted 2012-November-30, 17:19
its a pickup partner what do you expect - goren
Sarcasm is a state of mind
#4
Posted 2012-November-30, 17:20
(following Quiddity).....and North's double seems premature too. If we allow EW a 9 card fit, then South has a singleton ♥. add 5♠s then partner must have a 4-card minor. 4♣ seems a standout bid and might find a slam.
1♠ is fine in an intermediate+ game, but an average club player would probably see South as holding a Weak 2 bid.
I would offer a 60% North, 40% South split. Many will find 40% for South severe, but playing with an unknown pick up partner they will expect more defense. Now if partner is a BBOer then North gets 100% - for the critique of the opening bid, of course!
Finally I agree with the ♥ lead on this auction - reducing their likely trump tricks might be essential to our success. True, the ♠A or ♦K is a winner on the actual layout, but there are many constructions where a ♥ switch would be one trick too late.
1♠ is fine in an intermediate+ game, but an average club player would probably see South as holding a Weak 2 bid.
I would offer a 60% North, 40% South split. Many will find 40% for South severe, but playing with an unknown pick up partner they will expect more defense. Now if partner is a BBOer then North gets 100% - for the critique of the opening bid, of course!
Finally I agree with the ♥ lead on this auction - reducing their likely trump tricks might be essential to our success. True, the ♠A or ♦K is a winner on the actual layout, but there are many constructions where a ♥ switch would be one trick too late.
Be the partner you want to play with.
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
#5
Posted 2012-November-30, 17:28
Have "all elevens" now changed to "all tens" ?
Vul.... I'd be more inclined to open a weak-2S
Vul.... I'd be more inclined to open a weak-2S
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
#6
Posted 2012-November-30, 17:32
North 253%.
I just kept adding to his tally with each comment he made.
I just kept adding to his tally with each comment he made.
#7
Posted 2012-November-30, 19:31
I would say North 65%.
North's double is a bit of a view but not as bad as people are suggesting. The hand appears to be a misfit and there could easily be no game. A 500 penalty seems likely and 800 may be possible. South should definitely have led ♠A as partner will have a spade shortage very often, and need not have a trump stack.
North's double is a bit of a view but not as bad as people are suggesting. The hand appears to be a misfit and there could easily be no game. A 500 penalty seems likely and 800 may be possible. South should definitely have led ♠A as partner will have a spade shortage very often, and need not have a trump stack.
#8
Posted 2012-November-30, 19:43
North's x is ridiculous. Yes I would not open the Sth hand, however this does not excuse an appalling x.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#9
Posted 2012-December-02, 12:59
I agree with Nigel that the double was not as terrible as other said. 3 Nt will not make, partner did never show a fit, 5 ♣ is far away.
But the lead was so terrrible that I would give south 95 %. This lead was made with a brain chicane.
And for Steve: No, this is no layout for a trump lead. Partner has a spade shortage and trumps. No need to lead anything but a high spade.
But the lead was so terrrible that I would give south 95 %. This lead was made with a brain chicane.
And for Steve: No, this is no layout for a trump lead. Partner has a spade shortage and trumps. No need to lead anything but a high spade.
Kind Regards
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#10
Posted 2012-December-04, 01:08
Lots of charges to hand out on this one for egregious bids or plays.
South gets one for opening 1 ♠ with this hand. Yep, it has 2 QTs, but only has 10 HCP. There is a continuum for hands that runs between a 1 bid and a weak 2. Even with the 2 quicks this one looks to me to be on the weak 2 side of the boundary between them.
North gets a charge for the double of 3 ♥. If you are in a 2/1 game force situation, you side either bids game or RARELY can stop in 3 of a major or 4 of a minor. 3 ♠ is obviously a no go. So North needs to bid a minor.
South gets a charge for the lead of a trump. The opponents have not shown any indication that the hand involves a cross ruff. They have shown at least 8 trump between them. Partner therefore looks to have 4 trump at most. A trump lead may help declarer pick up all partner's trumps something that he/she couldn't do by himself/herself. Codo suggests a ♠ lead. That's what the auction suggests. South has freely bid 2 ♠ over 2 ♥ which shows 6+ ♠s, yet North didn't support ♠ with game going values. It strongly implies that North doesn't have 2 or more ♠s. ♠ A, ♠ Q/ruff, low ♦/♦ K, ♠/ruff, ♦ A, ♣ A will yield +300.
The alternative lead of the ♦ K will still beat 3 ♥ one. ♦ K/♦ Q, ♠ A, ♠/ruff, ♦ A, ♣ A for +100. Since North is marked with ♦, the ♦ Q was a suit preference signal for ♠s.
South gets one for opening 1 ♠ with this hand. Yep, it has 2 QTs, but only has 10 HCP. There is a continuum for hands that runs between a 1 bid and a weak 2. Even with the 2 quicks this one looks to me to be on the weak 2 side of the boundary between them.
North gets a charge for the double of 3 ♥. If you are in a 2/1 game force situation, you side either bids game or RARELY can stop in 3 of a major or 4 of a minor. 3 ♠ is obviously a no go. So North needs to bid a minor.
South gets a charge for the lead of a trump. The opponents have not shown any indication that the hand involves a cross ruff. They have shown at least 8 trump between them. Partner therefore looks to have 4 trump at most. A trump lead may help declarer pick up all partner's trumps something that he/she couldn't do by himself/herself. Codo suggests a ♠ lead. That's what the auction suggests. South has freely bid 2 ♠ over 2 ♥ which shows 6+ ♠s, yet North didn't support ♠ with game going values. It strongly implies that North doesn't have 2 or more ♠s. ♠ A, ♠ Q/ruff, low ♦/♦ K, ♠/ruff, ♦ A, ♣ A will yield +300.
The alternative lead of the ♦ K will still beat 3 ♥ one. ♦ K/♦ Q, ♠ A, ♠/ruff, ♦ A, ♣ A for +100. Since North is marked with ♦, the ♦ Q was a suit preference signal for ♠s.
#11
Posted 2012-December-04, 04:12
The blame should go to both.
Pass is a much better bid than DBL and an easy one in a 2/1 partnership.
South did nothing wrong in the bidding, but not leading the ace of spades is a big error in judgment.
From the bidding the actual spade layout was the one to be expected.
+300 for minus two should give a reasonable score.
A high level contract makes only in clubs.
Rainer Herrmann
Pass is a much better bid than DBL and an easy one in a 2/1 partnership.
South did nothing wrong in the bidding, but not leading the ace of spades is a big error in judgment.
From the bidding the actual spade layout was the one to be expected.
+300 for minus two should give a reasonable score.
A high level contract makes only in clubs.
Rainer Herrmann
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