[pclayton]

IMP's, long matches

You are playing with me and you pick up as South:

Scoring: IMP

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And hear the auction:

North.....East.....South.....West
1♣.......1♥.......Pass.......Pass
Dbl.......Pass.......1♠.......Pass
2♥.......Pass.......?

Agree with 1♠?

What now?

[mike777]

1) I would pass, but understand 1s. 1S must show around 0-4/5 hcp on this auction
2)2nt now. I have more than zero HCP.

[Free]

I disagree with 1♠. That's why I don't have any reasonable continuation for such hand and such bidding.

[han]

This is tough. I have no problem with 1S, at least it guarantees a very weak hand.

The good thing about passing 1H* is that it's not a game of they make it. And hey, they might not.

Partner's 2H must show a monster hand, but I'm not sure what kind. Is this a powerhouse with 7 solid clubs but no heart stopper, or a great unbalanced hand with 4 spades?

I'm tempted to rebid 2S now, but I'm not sure whether this shows a very bad hand or longer spades. If the auction had gone (1H)-Dbl-1S-2H, I think that 2S would just show a bad hand, not extra spade length. Any other bid would show some values.

[flytoox]

I think I would pass the dbl. Now what do I do? I dont know. Pass is my choice, if I get dbled, then i will run to 2S. This should stop pd to bid 3 or 4S. He seems to have a good hand with 3card spade spt.

[inquiry]

I agree with 1♠ and I bid 2♠ now

ben

[whereagles]

1) 1S is ok, though pass would have saved me the trouble of replying to the cuebid, lol.
2) yuck.. I think I bid 2S.

[the hog]

I disagree with 1♠. That's why I don't have any reasonable continuation for such hand and such bidding. - Quote: Free

1S followed by 2S, though I don't mind an initial 2D either, now followed by 2S. One problem with bidding in a Major is that partners occasionally get a rush of blood to the head.

As you disagree with 1S Frederick, I would be interested to know what you would bid. I know you are far too good a player to contemplate a call such as Pass, which is a very poor call indeed. Passing takeout doubles does nothing to promote future partnership confidence, especially if you don't have your pass.

Now what do I do? I dont know. Pass is my choice, if I get dbled, then i will run to 2S. This should stop pd to bid 3 or 4S. He seems to have a good hand with 3card spade spt. Quote: Flytoox

Fly this second pass is even worse than passing 1H. "Doubled"?? You can bet that if passing 2H is a poor spot you will not be doubled. The opponents will just collect their money.

[inquiry]

flytoox, on Dec 5 2004, 06:19 PM, said:

I dont know. Pass is my choice, if I get dbled, then i will run to 2S.

Never, ever, pass my forcing cue-bids.... even when it is right, because, I will not be able to trust you in the future.

[pclayton]

LOL; my pard passed, which turned out spectacularly well. I held: AJx, x, AJxx, AKQxx, which is about what I rate to have on this auction; doesn't three trump sound right? Could I have the K♦ instead of the jack? Maybe; but note that 3N still isn't cold.

The 3-3 spade fit doesnt play poorly either, but I have a lot of respect for the pass. 2♠ isn't likely to be passed by partner, but you know you can take a lot of trump tricks in 2♥, and stop the bidding from getting overboard.

After recovering from the initial shock, I ended up setting up a coup or endplay against my LHO for +140 I think, after pitching a few diamonds on the clubs. We won the board; the other table played 2N I think -1.

Passing 1♥ doubled is plain silly, but works out very well obviously. Next time I'll have my typical 4144 12 count.

[Free]

If you would pass this 2♥ cuebid and make it to play (and lose your partner's trust), why didn't you let opps play 1♥ doubled?? IF you manage to make 8 tricks in 2♥, then they're already -2... Respect for such pass? NO WAY! It's ridiculous!!

It's better to think ahead (and not just what to bid this turn), and if you know you better pass on a 2♥ cuebid, then you might as well just pass 1♥*...

[EricK]

Free, on Dec 6 2004, 10:12 AM, said:

If you would pass this 2♥ cuebid and make it to play (and lose your partner's trust), why didn't you let opps play 1♥ doubled?? IF you manage to make 8 tricks in 2♥, then they're already -2... Respect for such pass? NO WAY! It's ridiculous!!

It's better to think ahead (and not just what to bid this turn), and if you know you better pass on a 2♥ cuebid, then you might as well just pass 1♥*...

That argument is unsound.

If you get to pass a 2♥ cue-bid then now you know partner has a very strong hand. But on the first round, you don't know he has a strong hand.

Suppose partner had passed 1♠, then you know partner has a weak hand and that passing 1♥X would have been a bad idea.

I agree that it is a good idea to plan your auction in advance, but it is a consistent position for that plan to be "take out 1♥X in case partner is weak, but let partner play in 2♥ if he has significant extras".

Eric

[flytoox]

To Ron and Ben,
From the bidding pd has 3card spade only, and he also has one heart at least. I cannot understand why 6-1 would be worse than 33 spade fit. RHO has heart suit, not LHO. I think 2H is much better than 2s. Burn's rule says ur trump shld be at least longer than opps. You have JT of trumps, opp can have 4trump tricks at most. you can ruff club.

To PHil,
passing 1H x is not silly I think. You just cannot have 4144 12hcp from the auction, where are those honour cards? Even if it is the case, I think 1Hx will be better than any contract get dbled.

[inquiry]

flytoox, on Dec 6 2004, 09:45 AM, said:

To Ron and Ben,
From the bidding pd has 3card spade only, and he also has one heart at least. I cannot understand why 6-1 would be worse than 33 spade fit. RHO has heart suit, not LHO. I think 2H is much better than 2s. Burn's rule says ur trump shld be at least longer than opps. You have JT of trumps, opp can have 4trump tricks at most. you can ruff club.

First, partner may have only 1 ♠, second, partner may have six spades. We don't know what partner has, his reopening double just shows, roughly, an opening hand unsuited for a jump in a new suit. His 2♥ bid could be any monster hand where he is seeking more information. Maybe he wants to see if we have a meaty 8 or 9 point hand. Maybe he wants to see if we have a heart stopper. I don't know what he has. This time, he had 3♠, next time he will have,

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Needless to say, he will not be overjoyed playing 2♥ minus one on club force when you are laydown for 6♠. Pass 1♥ is wrong, pass 2♥ is wrong, and it iswrong, even on the few hands were it turns out right as it destroys partnership confidence. The last thing I want to worry about when I make a forcing cue-bid of the opponents suit is will my partner mastermind the hand and pass... .that will have a chilling effect on my bidding.

ben

[flytoox]

inquiry, on Dec 6 2004, 02:18 PM, said:

flytoox, on Dec 6 2004, 09:45 AM, said:

To Ron and Ben,
  From the bidding pd has 3card spade only, and he also has one heart at least. I cannot understand why 6-1 would be worse than 33 spade fit. RHO has heart suit, not LHO. I think 2H is much better than 2s. Burn's rule says ur trump shld be at least longer than opps. You have JT of trumps, opp can have 4trump tricks at most. you can ruff club.

First, partner may have only 1 ♠, second, partner may have six spades. We don't know what partner has, his reopening double just shows, roughly, an opening hand unsuited for a jump in a new suit. His 2♥ bid could be any monster hand where he is seeking more information. Maybe he wants to see if we have a meaty 8 or 9 point hand. Maybe he wants to see if we have a heart stopper. I don't know what he has. This time, he had 3♠, next time he will have,

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Needless to say, he will not be overjoyed playing 2♥ minus one on club force when you are laydown for 6♠. Pass 1♥ is wrong, pass 2♥ is wrong, and it iswrong, even on the few hands were it turns out right as it destroys partnership confidence. The last thing I want to worry about when I make a forcing cue-bid of the opponents suit is will my partner mastermind the hand and pass... .that will have a chilling effect on my bidding.

ben

Ben, I am sure you either just get up or gooing to sleep. Otherwise you wont give such a hand for opening 1D and then dbl 1H.

[mike777]

Strongly disagree with passing 2h for all the reasons listed above.

Understand 2h rebid by opener. Assuming 1s will be weak, very often, I believe 2d rebid is a reasonable option for rebid on this hand that no one has discussed. 2D must be pretty strong since partner can have zero HCP.

[pclayton]

2♦ with my hand is a reasonable call, but it downplays the spade suit. I think a 2♦ call is reserved for hands more like: xx, x, AKJx, AKQxxx. The reason I cue bid was because if partner has 5 (or 6) spades and a weak hand, we still may have a game. Note that I need significant ODR to double and then reverse.

I think this hand is a cousin of the other thread where we held: Kx, xxxx, AJTxx, xx and partner reopened with 2♥ after opening 1♠. Thankfully everyone agrees with my logic (by NOT suggesting a "cue-bid") that a subsequent 3♦ call is TO PLAY. How else can you bid: x, x, KQT9xxxx, xxx? You were hoping to annhilate 2♦, but partner didn't cooperate and instead showed his 2-suiter. Now you need a place to land, and thats 3♦.

On this hand, passing partner's "cue bid" is tantamount to bidding the suit yourself in the above situation.

[han]

I just looked up the meaning of the word tantamount. I disagree.

Passing a cuebid is not the same as bidding the suit yourself, even if this is to play. If you bid the suit yourself with x x KQxxxxxx xxx then partner has the chance to bid again. If you pass the cuebid then partner doesn't have this option.


Unrelated: even though I didn't opt for the cuebid on the other thread, I would not play 3D as to play there. I hope I never want to play in a suit the opponents overcall in at the 2-level, and it hasn't happened yet.

[Fluffy]

1♠ is the only sensible bid.

2♠ now, its a 3-3 fit probably, but maybe we can manage a cross-ruff.