[Codo]

mike777, on 2012-November-28, 06:26, said:

there are 2 places at the very top of the convention card you can tellthe opponents and I do tell.

http://web2.acbl.org...ofilloutcc2.htm


VERY LIGHT:


Check any boxes that apply to your partnership.

Openings: If you routinely open hands with fewer than 11 high-card points (HCP) that are not especially shapely, check this box

So a 6304 hand is not especially shapely in your world?
And ACBL ccs are not that much in use here...

[rhm]

mike777, on 2012-November-28, 06:26, said:

Openings: If you routinely open hands with fewer than 11 high-card points (HCP) that are not especially shapely, check this box

First of all I consider this very shapely and I also consider this borderline between 1♠ and 2♠.
What I would never do is pass this hand.

But with regard to all this ethical hogwash, well I consider that exactly that, hogwash.

This question is essentially a matter of judgement and opening this hand by today's standard as 1♠ is certainly not out of this world.

I am all for "full disclosure". What I do believe, however, is what can be accomplished in practice is limited and we have to live with that.
Live with the fact that other people have different views what constitutes successful bidding.

Do you tell your opponents all the time for example

Whether you are very conservative with your sacrifice bidding or
You tend to be optimistic with your sacrifice bidding
You jump to 3NT prematurely
You are an overbidder /underbidder (check box) and in which circumstances
You are at times subject to cross misjudgment?

I have never seen a pair alerting me to this fact.

or any other tendency they might have.
It may all be very important for the decisions your opponents have to take in the bidding as well as in the play.

Relegate all this ethical nonsense to the law department.

Rainer Herrmann

[mike777]

have never seen a pair alerting me to this fact.

or any other tendency they might have.
It may all be very important for the decisions your opponents have to take in the bidding as well as in the play.
--


guys the issue is not whether this is shapely or not. You miss the point.

The issue I posted on is do you tell your opp if you open light, often or not.

Frankly I am shocked if you have this tendency that you think people never tell.

As I mentioned there are at least 2 places to tell right at the top of the cc. and you are expected to tell.

[Zelandakh]

mike777, on 2012-November-28, 08:38, said:

As I mentioned there are at least 2 places to tell right at the top of the cc. and you are expected to tell.

I do take your point. I also understand the point that a pair might choose to open all balanced 10 counts and pass/preempt all shapely 9 counts. The majority of players are simply not really consistent about what the minimum level of offensive and/or defensive strength for an opening bid is, that is if you can even get them to agree with you about which of two hands is better for opening (see Rainer's comment in a recent thread for one of many examples of this).

Edit: another point to consider is that "Light Openings" means different things to different people unless the RA specifically defines it. For example, Acol espouses light openings and yet the definitions of those that I learned would not be considered light openings by (almost) anyone reagularly reading BBF. I think alerting opponents that you were playing light openings using that style would not be useful. On the other hand, I would consider that I do open light when playing my strong club system and think it is appropriate that opps know that. But that only refers to unbalanced hands - I am actually pretty conservative with balanced hands so it is necessary to be careful not to give a blanket disclaimer. Having said I open light, it is nothing compared to a system like Moscito. Again, just saying "light openings" covers a large range and alone is not particularly helpful, even when it comes as a checkbox on the CC, which for most players out there it does not.

[mike777]

Zelandakh, on 2012-November-28, 08:55, said:

I do take your point. I also understand the point that a pair might choose to open all balanced 10 counts and pass/preempt all shapely 9 counts. The majority of players are simply not really consistent about what the minimum level of offensive and/or defensive strength for an opening bid is, that is if you can even get them to agree with you about which of two hands is better for opening (see Rainer's comment in a recent thread for one of many examples of this).

good points

[helene_t]

hehe Richard doesn't want to preempt because the hand has too much defense and Mikeh doesn't want to open 1♠ because the hand has no defense

I think the hand has just slightly too much playing strength for 2♠ and I don't believe in tweeners so I won't pass. I think 1♠ is ok, it obviously can take us too high but not opening 1♠ might not take us high enough.

[PhilKing]

This hand is an advert for 2M showing 8-11.

[Trinidad]

Whether you open this 1♠ or 2♠ is a matter of judgement and taste. Where I play, the norm is to open about half of the 4432's with 11 HCP. This hand is better than a good 11HCP 4432. That means that if someone opens this 1♠, I will not consider that very light. So, if my opponents open 1♠, I know that this hand is possible.

Rik

[silvr bull]

I think either of the black tens has more offensive playing strength (but obviously less defense) than a red queen, and I would not be embarrassed to open this 1♠, but I chose 2♠ instead. My view is that there is value in limiting my hand at the earliest convenient spot in an auction. If I open 1♠ here, I will need to focus my remaining bids on slowing partner down so we do not get too high. By opening 2♠, in contrast, I have extras that will allow me to bid more aggressively later.

[mike777]

silvr bull, on 2012-November-28, 22:18, said:

I think either of the black tens has more offensive playing strength (but obviously less defense) than a red queen, and I would not be embarrassed to open this 1♠, but I chose 2♠ instead. My view is that there is value in limiting my hand at the earliest convenient spot in an auction. If I open 1♠ here, I will need to focus my remaining bids on slowing partner down so we do not get too high. By opening 2♠, in contrast, I have extras that will allow me to bid more aggressively later.

sounds like a strong argument in favor of 1s then.


pard should play me for this hand if I open 1s...but never if I open 2s