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a board from the club

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 01:00



Do you agree with 1?
What now?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 01:15

View Postjillybean, on 2012-November-21, 01:00, said:



Do you agree with 1?
What now?


Totally disagree with 1D. This flies in face of all bidding theory. This is a 1H bid and therefore I do not have this problem now, If I played splinters in partner's suit, ( I don't), then this is a 4C bid.
If I misbid and bid 1D I would just bid 4H now and apologise to partner for making a mechanical.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#3 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 01:20

#1 No
#2 4th suit forcing, i.e. either 1S or 2S
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#4 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 01:41

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2012-November-21, 01:20, said:

#1 No
#2 4th suit forcing, i.e. either 1S or 2S

same for me
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#5 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 03:05

1-1
2-4

1-1
3-3
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#6 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 03:43

No, Horrible. A lot of people whould not even bid 1 with 54 in the reds... But with 5/5 it is plain silly.

Now, I can never recover. If I bid 4sf and raise later, this shows a Slam try or just 3 card support. Congratulations.

I try 4 now.
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Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 03:54

View PostCodo, on 2012-November-21, 03:43, said:

Now, I can never recover.

I think that is a bit harsh. If partner had three hearts it might have been impossible to find the fit but as it is we can can just sell the hand as 4-6 in the red suits or such, partner won't expect 5-card support but you can adjust the strength you express to compensate.

I would bit 4 now but if the hand is a tad strong for that then 4th suit followed by 4.
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#8 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 05:01

1 is an abomination.

What does 2 mean by your methods ? for me it's a splinter agreeing hearts, so I'll fake that (partner will value the ace only, shame I can't find out about the queen), at least it gives some idea I have 4+ card heart support and more diamonds, basically I'll bid it as a 1462 which is as close as I can now get. At least partner might set me up to go beyond 4 with Axx, KJxx, K, Axxxx.
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#9 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 05:34

never 1 but 1, it seems to be a simple things.
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#10 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 08:50

This reminds of a pard who always seemed to bid 1d after I open 1c no matter what.

Later I asked why and she explained she bid "up the line".
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#11 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 09:43

A unanimous poll. :)

This was an experiment gone wrong, I started 1 thinking that if partner bid 1 next I could bid 2 and then hearts again
(wrong shape) and if partner bid 1/1 I would splinter 4 since clubs is likely not a suit.

My 4 was interpreted as gerber, partner responded 5 and we played in 6 - 1. Partner held 9862,AT95,7,AK96
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#12 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 10:10

1?

Surely someone that plays kickback and is experimenting with pass/double inversion knows better!
Hi y'all!

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#13 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 10:19

View Postjillybean, on 2012-November-21, 09:43, said:

My 4 was interpreted as gerber, partner responded 5 and we played in 6 - 1. Partner held 9862,AT95,7,AK96


Other people have said all there is to say on the 1 bid. But this is plain weird. Why would 4C be gerber? And what does a 5S response mean - eight aces? (or did you typo 4S)

ahydra
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#14 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 14:02

View Postjillybean, on 2012-November-21, 09:43, said:

A unanimous poll. :)

This was an experiment gone wrong, I started 1 thinking that if partner bid 1 next I could bid 2 and then hearts again
(wrong shape) and if partner bid 1/1 I would splinter 4 since clubs is likely not a suit.

My 4 was interpreted as gerber, partner responded 5 and we played in 6 - 1. Partner held 9862,AT95,7,AK96


You need some serious discussions with this PD if he could possibly think that 4 is Gerber. I'd also appologize to PD for bidding rather than first when 5-5.
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#15 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-November-22, 09:31

Heh, I should have said I thought I held x56x

If you can disregard my appalling 1 bid for a moment, I would like to look at why 4 shouldn't be a splinter.
Partners club likely isn't a suit, 4 describes the hand and I don't see a better use for it.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#16 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-November-22, 09:43

View Postjillybean, on 2012-November-22, 09:31, said:

Heh, I should have said I thought I held x56x

If you can disregard my appalling 1 bid for a moment, I would like to look at why 4 shouldn't be a splinter.
Partners club likely isn't a suit, 4 describes the hand and I don't see a better use for it.

How do you bid x, x, KJxxx(x), AJxxx(x) ?

Opposite a potentially 2 card club, I probably agree with you, but opposite a 3 or 4 card club I think it can be natural.
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#17 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-November-22, 10:01

View PostCyberyeti, on 2012-November-22, 09:43, said:

How do you bid x, x, KJxxx(x), AJxxx(x) ?

Opposite a potentially 2 card club, I probably agree with you, but opposite a 3 or 4 card club I think it can be natural.


I did say the club bid is likely not a suit.

1 1
1

If I have club support and a minimum I will bid 2, with club support and an invitation or gf I have xyz.
Even without xyz a jump to 3 would be invitational, a game forcing hand would go via 4SF.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#18 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-November-22, 10:22

View Postjillybean, on 2012-November-22, 10:01, said:

I did say the club bid is likely not a suit.

1 1
1

If I have club support and a minimum I will bid 2, with club support and an invitation or gf I have xyz.
Even without xyz a jump to 3 would be invitational, a game forcing hand would go via 4SF.

Fair enough, most brits don't use XYZ so have more of an issue with this.
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#19 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2012-November-22, 10:33

View Postjillybean, on 2012-November-22, 09:31, said:

Heh, I should have said I thought I held x56x

If you can disregard my appalling 1 bid for a moment, I would like to look at why 4 shouldn't be a splinter.
Partners club likely isn't a suit, 4 describes the hand and I don't see a better use for it.


4c shouldn't be a splinter because you are playing with someone bad enough to interpret all 4c bids as Gerber, and also responds to Gerber at 5 level! :)

I think if you are playing with a good player, 4c is interpreted as spl, since club hands can be shown many different ways, via 4sf/xyz or whatever you are playing.

I disagree with your notion that partner's club "likely isn't a suit" if you mean that as "likely is a 3-cd suit". It likely *is* a suit, on this auction, particularly if you play a Walsh style where opener would rebid 1nt bypassing majors on all their 3 cd club opening hands. Even if not, it's going to be a suit way more often than not. Still 4c as a spl is reasonable because sometimes partners club suit was Jxxx or Jxxxx and most of their points are working. "Likely isn't a suit" is clearly wrong, "might not be a good suit with wastage" is more accurate.

But if you are playing with a 4c is always gerber player, of course it is much more practical to just bid 4h and avoid accidents. The # of slams you miss from not being able to splinter is rather small. And of course you don't bid 1d unless playing xfer walsh which you wouldn't be with this partner.
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#20 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-November-22, 18:01

View Postjillybean, on 2012-November-22, 10:01, said:

I did say the club bid is likely not a suit.

1 1
1

If I have club support and a minimum I will bid 2, with club support and an invitation or gf I have xyz.
Even without xyz a jump to 3 would be invitational, a game forcing hand would go via 4SF.


In this case the C would definitely be a suit. I would be showing 5C and 4H. If you have a balanced hand, rebid in NT.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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