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Seven Spades on a finesse...

#1 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2012-October-28, 13:35

Imp's, all red, you got there like this:

AQ98
K
AJ87x
Axx

KJxxx
Ax
KTx
Qxx

1-(3)-3-(Pa)
4N-(Pa)-5-(Pa)
5N-(Pa)-6-(Pa)
7-All pass

A heart is led. Spades are 2-2.

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#2 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2012-October-28, 13:41

I draw trumps ending in hand, then cash king of diamonds then run the 10 planning to hook LHO for the queen. This let's us pick up a 4-1 break, not unlikely given the bidding. If diamonds do break 4-1 (assuming 10 is covered) , then I can cross over in trumps and taking another hook.

edit: yes, that does mean it's a very skimpy 3H bid, but maybe he had xx QJTxxxx x KJx or something.
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#3 User is offline   RunemPard 

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Posted 2012-October-28, 14:59

I cannot imagine the 3H bidder bidding 3H vulnerable with xx QJxxxxx Qxx x.

It just seems that it must be something like xx QJxxxxx x KJx or even a void in diamonds.

Even xx QJxxxxx Qx Kx is possible...but should we really play for that?

I suppose an 8 card suit is also possible, but your guess is as good as mine.

Maybe I am looking at it wrong..but I think a diamond void is impossible to make anyways.
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#4 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-October-28, 16:00

cash the A to see if K is singleton or east has void. It might be required anyway as venna cup if damonds are 5-0. When nothing falls under A nor K run the 10 etc.
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#5 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-October-28, 18:43

What Fluffy said. The aforementioned 'venna cup' will not actually be needed as we will be squeezing West, but cashing A is correct because we don't want to go down when East has stiff king plus Qxx of diamonds.
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#6 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2015-July-26, 11:25

There is not time for squeeze. Instead from bidding and vul. E should have 2-8-1-2 with K of club for 6 losers(=7 winners). Cash spade, hearts and K of diamond (against stiff Q) and impassing to West.
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#7 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2015-July-28, 04:26

It would be extremely careless to go off when the pre-empt is 2731 with stiff K of clubs. He also could be void in clubs. Also, when I cash the second heart I should find out whether the hearts are 8-2 or 7-3. (Or 6-4, if that is how your opponents play).

So my line is to arrange to cash 2 hearts, two spades and the club ace, and try to count rho's cards.

1) If he has 7 cards in hearts and plays a small club under the ace.
- now play the non preempter to have the diamond Q, as it seems super likely that he has short diamonds and some 2713 type. I can afford to cash the K and table the T now.
2) He shows out of clubs and has 7 hearts. 2740 is his shape, and now I need to pick up 5 diamond tricks for two club pitches, so I table the diamond J, then I cross in trumps and table the diamond 8.
3) He has 7 hearts and drops the club K singleton. 2731 is his shape. Confirm the count by cashing the queen, and hook the pre-emptor.
4) He has 8 hearts and plays a small club. 2821 2812 and 2803 are all possible. But with 8 hearts and the club K I would bid 4 hearts, so this is tough. I also cannot arrange to squeeze as I only have 5 spades 2h 2d 1c. Guess I will finesse the non preemptor for the diamond Q when he has 8 hearts.
5) He has 8 hearts and the stiff k of clubs. Ill still hook the non pre-emptor.
6) he has 8 hearts and a club void. Hook the pre-emptor.
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#8 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2015-July-28, 07:11

View Postphil_20686, on 2015-July-28, 04:26, said:

It would be extremely careless to go off when the pre-empt is 2731 with stiff K of clubs. He also could be void in clubs. Also, when I cash the second heart I should find out whether the hearts are 8-2 or 7-3. (Or 6-4, if that is how your opponents play).

So my line is to arrange to cash 2 hearts, two spades and the club ace, and try to count rho's cards.

1) If he has 7 cards in hearts and plays a small club under the ace.
- now play the non preempter to have the diamond Q, as it seems super likely that he has short diamonds and some 2713 type. I can afford to cash the K and table the T now.
2) He shows out of clubs and has 7 hearts. 2740 is his shape, and now I need to pick up 5 diamond tricks for two club pitches, so I table the diamond J, then I cross in trumps and table the diamond 8.
3) He has 7 hearts and drops the club K singleton. 2731 is his shape. Confirm the count by cashing the queen, and hook the pre-emptor.
4) He has 8 hearts and plays a small club. 2821 2812 and 2803 are all possible. But with 8 hearts and the club K I would bid 4 hearts, so this is tough. I also cannot arrange to squeeze as I only have 5 spades 2h 2d 1c. Guess I will finesse the non preemptor for the diamond Q when he has 8 hearts.
5) He has 8 hearts and the stiff k of clubs. Ill still hook the non pre-emptor.
6) he has 8 hearts and a club void. Hook the pre-emptor.

Probably you have another way to evaluate pre-empt whilest i play Stayman and, seems to me that : with a 7 card you have more losers, with an 8 cards to bid 4 you need almost 3 top honors in heart it being an aggresive preempt whilest it is just for losers and vul (at pair vul winners + 2=level).(Lovera)
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#9 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2015-July-29, 10:28

View PostLovera, on 2015-July-28, 07:11, said:

Probably you have another way to evaluate pre-empt whilest i play Stayman and, seems to me that : with a 7 card you have more losers, with an 8 cards to bid 4 you need almost 3 top honors in heart it being an aggresive preempt whilest it is just for losers and vul (at pair vul winners + 2=level).


That is way way too passive. In fact, there are top level players in the world who would bid 3H with 6 a lot of the time, even with only QJT9xx, and 4h often with hands like xx QJT9xxx - Kxxx
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#10 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 08:13

View Postphil_20686, on 2015-July-29, 10:28, said:

That is way way too passive. In fact, there are top level players in the world who would bid 3H with 6 a lot of the time, even with only QJT9xx, and 4h often with hands like xx QJT9xxx - Kxxx

I find that Stayman is a good and precise system. Infact i have based my hand valutation on a light variation of that by Stayman.
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