[Fluffy]

Scoring: IMP

N - E - S - W
1♥-1♠-??

---

[inquiry]

I think a popular vote might be a lead directing 2♥, but it is wrong. First, you don't want partner leading from AJ-fifth. Second, you don't want parnter applying the law and overbidding. The sane thing to do is pass. With five spades, the bidding is not over. Partner will surely be short and reopen with a double or a minor suit bid. Then you can rebid 2♥ if given a chance wthout getting the killing lead for your side's chances (like heart from AJ) or getting your partner to excited.

[flytoox]

Hehe, the only reason you ask must be u passed and got a bad result. No matter what happened you still should pass next time.

[EricK]

I would pass. I am too weak for 1NT or 2D, and I don't like 2♥ as it may encourage partner to compete too high when I want to defend.

The bidding isn't over yet. I may still get to tell partner about my meagre posessions.

Eric

[HeartA]

I vote for pass as well.

[luke warm]

since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass

[flytoox]

luke warm, on Nov 29 2004, 10:25 PM, said:

since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass

jimmy, that is not quite enough, better to bid 2D or 2H if pd reopen.

[inquiry]

luke warm, on Nov 29 2004, 06:25 PM, said:

since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass

Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass.

[HeartA]

inquiry, on Nov 29 2004, 06:40 PM, said:

luke warm, on Nov 29 2004, 06:25 PM, said:

since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass

Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass.

I would bid 2♥, don't like my ♦. Leave the reopen-dbl in? Too weak (♠ and overall hand) to do that.

[pclayton]

Pull the reopening to 2♦. Double a 2♠ follow-up; which is an EXCELLENT description of this hand. Compete to 3♦ over 3♣.

[Antoine Fourrière]

Pass, followed by 3♦ over a reopening double.

[luke warm]

since so many disagreed, i'll bow to their collective wisdom...

[HeartA]

pclayton, on Nov 29 2004, 06:49 PM, said:

Pull the reopening to 2♦. Double a 2♠ follow-up; which is an EXCELLENT description of this hand. Compete to 3♦ over 3♣.

You got to show your support for partner's opening suit with Qx. I would pull pd's reopen-dbl to 2H and compete 3♦ over 3♣. Or, if you pull pd's reopen-dbl to 2D, then u need to compete to 3H over 3C, in which case, pd had to correct to 4D if (s)he has 4-card ♦ and 5-card ♥ only. In this regard, 2♥ over pd's reopen-dbl is then 2D, for later competition.

Also, to pull pd's dbl to 2D and rebid 3D is too much with such a weak 5-card suit.

[cf_John0]

Pass first. Later if necessary,support PD's ♥.

[EricK]

inquiry, on Nov 29 2004, 11:40 PM, said:

luke warm, on Nov 29 2004, 06:25 PM, said:

since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass

Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass.

Why do you prefer 2♥ to 2♦ after partner's re-opening double?

I would have thought that being able to ruff the ♠ in the short trump hand on a probable 9 card fit is worth a trick or two more than whatever partner can make in his 5-2 fit.

If partner subsequently hints at more than a part score I can mention my ♥ then, but it seems wrong to hide my 5 card suit from partner.

Eric

[joker_gib]

Pass first and I think I would bid 1NT (am I the only one ? ) on the reopening dlb because 2♥ = 3 cards (most of the time), ♦ Diamonds are weak and I have a solid ♠ stop + max HCP for pass.

Ok I have single ♣, but I can live with it !

[inquiry]

EricK, on Nov 30 2004, 04:28 AM, said:

inquiry, on Nov 29 2004, 11:40 PM, said:

luke warm, on Nov 29 2004, 06:25 PM, said:

since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass

Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass.

Why do you prefer 2♥ to 2♦ after partner's re-opening double?

I would have thought that being able to ruff the ♠ in the short trump hand on a probable 9 card fit is worth a trick or two more than whatever partner can make in his 5-2 fit.

If partner subsequently hints at more than a part score I can mention my ♥ then, but it seems wrong to hide my 5 card suit from partner.

Eric

I didn't mean so much to prefer hearts as to warn partner not to bid again. My long spades, in theory will stop the spade force. And the fact that I didn't raise hearts at first, will keep partner from participating further in the auction. If they will leave me alone, I would prefer 2♦, but I suspect 2♦ will not be the end of the bidding.

[EricK]

inquiry, on Nov 30 2004, 12:19 PM, said:

EricK, on Nov 30 2004, 04:28 AM, said:

inquiry, on Nov 29 2004, 11:40 PM, said:

luke warm, on Nov 29 2004, 06:25 PM, said:

since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass

Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass.

Why do you prefer 2♥ to 2♦ after partner's re-opening double?

I would have thought that being able to ruff the ♠ in the short trump hand on a probable 9 card fit is worth a trick or two more than whatever partner can make in his 5-2 fit.

If partner subsequently hints at more than a part score I can mention my ♥ then, but it seems wrong to hide my 5 card suit from partner.

Eric

I didn't mean so much to prefer hearts as to warn partner not to bid again. My long spades, in theory will stop the spade force. And the fact that I didn't raise hearts at first, will keep partner from participating further in the auction. If they will leave me alone, I would prefer 2♦, but I suspect 2♦ will not be the end of the bidding.

In the specific auction 1♥ (1♠) P (P) X (P) 2♦, it strikes me as very unlikely that the opps are suddenly going to come to life! Once both opponents have passed consecutively, it is much more likely that partner has a very strong hand, so we might as well describe our hand as best we can.

Eric

[pclayton]

The reason I bid 2♦ instead of 2♥ over the dbl isn't because I'm worried about the spade force; its because I'm worried about partner losing ♣ and ♥ tricks. With my hand, diamonds looks to be a much better spot, even at MP's.

A typical reopening for pard is: x, KJxxx, Axx, Axxx. (BY the way, where's JT been?). This plays pretty awkward in hearts, but diamonds looks like a good place to land. 1♠ looks frigid, but I don't mind defending 2 doubled looking for +200. I can see that they have a very playable spot in ♣'s, but this looks difficult to reach.

[inquiry]

EricK, on Nov 30 2004, 08:28 AM, said:

In the specific auction 1♥ (1♠) P (P) X (P) 2♦, it strikes me as very unlikely that the opps are suddenly going to come to life! Once both opponents have passed consecutively, it is much more likely that partner has a very strong hand, so we might as well describe our hand as best we can.

Eric

I put this hypothesis to the test by using REC software Inc's Bridgebrowser onto the problem. I asked it to check for auctions that begin specifically

1♥ (1♠) P (P) X (P) 2♦,

And examined how many were followed by three passes. In my initial test using recent BBO data, I found this auction occured 96 times, but 2♦ ended the auction only 16 times (just more than 16%). The overcaller (the spade bidder) side played the hand a total of 25 times (meaning they outbid your side of course). Sometimes the extra bidding was by opener without any interference, but on 62 of the 97 hands the overcaller side took another action in the auction after the 2♦ call, and on a few where they didn't it was openers rebid that scared them off in my opinion.

So I think the auction is not over after a 2♦ call from either your partner's side of the table or the opponents. IT might be, be the odds of that are fairly low. If partner has diamonds, they will find a reason to bid, if partner is strong, he might bid again, if he is not, they will bid again. This seems to be a trueism... If you bid 2♦ and overcaller has fair clubs and nice spades, he will reopen with a double over 2♦ and find their fit.. and if you don't belong in diamonds, he might reopen and the next hand might have enough diamonds (behind you) to find the pass.

ben