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hanging atb

#1 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-August-21, 16:49



IMPS

This sequence was perpetrated by my and partner and I and repeated by a couple of European Open Pairs medallists. Comments?
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-August-21, 17:20

I understand north's decisions, but I try hard to overcall 2H initially instead of coming in at the 3-level a round later. But on this hand my preference is passing out 2S. That's right, I would miss 4H and I'd be defending 2S.

The word hanging gives an emotional feel to a decision that should be based on winning or losing IMPs. Will partner be unhappy if he risked his life with 3H and we hanged him by raising to 4 when his 3H bid was right? Maybe so, but that shouldn't matter.

The reason partner didn't overcall 2H is probably that his suit is too crummy. That's ok, our queen fourth should help. He balanced 3H red against white, so he should be expecting to make 3H a large amount of the time. It doesn't make sense to bid 3H expecting to go down. Partner may be expecting our 10-count (actually, this time he could not), but he can't expect our great fit. Perhaps a more likely hand for partner would be something like xxx AJxxxx x KQx. But even with that hand, I'd prefer to bid 2H directly.

Opposite myself I would raise with the north hand, but again, I wouldn't dare to bid 3H on the actual hand.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-August-22, 02:43

I would never lift with N hand. I would not bid 2 previously with S hand and i would have passed 2 . Only thing i might have done different than most people could be to DBL 1 with S hand perhaps, but i am not really sure about that either for various reasons. Maybe i am resulting.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
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"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-August-22, 03:36

You would not bid 3H with this south hand, and you would not raise to 4H on this north hand. What kind of hand do you need to bid 3H with, and why then would it be a bad idea to raise with the north hand?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#6 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-August-22, 03:42

I think East should double 1. It's not going to get easier to bid if he passes on the first round, and double at least ensures that we don't lose a 9-card heart fit. It's true that West will expect four clubs, so there's some risk of reaching an inadequate fit, but East's hand looks OK for playing in clubs, and it seems safer to do this than to overcall hearts at any point.

I probably wouldn't have thought of this until after the hand was over.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#7 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-August-22, 04:04

View Posthan, on 2012-August-22, 03:36, said:

You would not bid 3H with this south hand, and you would not raise to 4H on this north hand. What kind of hand do you need to bid 3H with, and why then would it be a bad idea to raise with the north hand?


Qxx KTxxxx x Qxx

Axx Kxxxxx x xxx

Axxx JTxxxx Qx x

xxx AKxxxx xx xx

This is what balancing means to me.

To me balancing does not mean " hey pd, i have a 2/1 overcall strength but i was sissy previous round due to my bad trumps so i am trying to catch up at 3 level, bid game if you have 4 card support and a balanced 10 count"

Balancing means " Pd i was able to spot your strength and/or i was able to spot the support you have in the suit i am about to bid, please do not get excited unless you have something rare " 10 hcp balanced 4 card support is not a rare hand when pd balances to me.

I am not against 3 with S hand as much as i am against suggesting to bid game with N hand. After all South thought his pd has short spade and very likely to hold some hearts.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-August-22, 08:58

I think this is a tough hand and I have sympathy for both players.
Hi y'all!

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#9 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2012-August-22, 13:38

I would never waltz in with 3. Partner could have horrific hands easily here since I'm so strong, may I suggest Jx, x, Kxxxxx, xxxx?

Double of 1 was possible. I think I would. But else I think I would have to live with never getting in the bidding.
Michael Askgaard
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#10 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-August-23, 08:17

1d p 1s x
2s 3h p 4h

easy hand
reentering the bidding with 3h is a flight of fancy that mananged to
find p with the right fit and just enough power to make 4h a good contract.

p has nothing special for your belated raise and will almost always pass. the
fact that they have 4 hearts will normally be meaningless except to maybe
avoid a loser in hearts. While the spade K may be favorably placed there
isnt any special reason to assume they can ruff a spade even. Leave 3h alone
if p couldnt act earlier game will certainly have almost no chance.

You must plan ahead in the bidding. Understand when you are most likely
to be shut out entirely and just how useful your hand may be and at what level.
The above is certainly true in 4th position when the limits of your p hand are
more defined.

Failure to act early with an effective hand will normally grant a huge advantage
to any opair that opens light (an ever increasing number).
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#11 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2012-August-23, 11:03

I think I would bid 2H with South first round, but with only AJxxx it's hard to understand why the actual South passed. See no problem with North not raising 3H to 4. Game doesn't look great anyway if trumps don't split 2-2.

ahydra
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#12 User is offline   Poky 

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Posted 2012-August-26, 03:34

View Postahydra, on 2012-August-23, 11:03, said:

I think I would bid 2H with South first round, but with only AJxxx it's hard to understand why the actual South passed. See no problem with North not raising 3H to 4. Game doesn't look great anyway if trumps don't split 2-2.

ahydra


Delayed 3 it is not a pile of crap, North has an auto-raise.

Game could be below 35% only if South is prone to make nonsense bids.
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#13 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2012-August-26, 03:42

I would never raise with the North hand in a month of Sundays.

3H for me would be a hand where I know partner has a fit, because he is short in their suit

xxxx KQxxx in the majors plus a bit more besides. Even then, I doubt I'd make that call vulnerable.
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#14 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-August-26, 06:18

View Postmr1303, on 2012-August-26, 03:42, said:

3H for me would be a hand where I know partner has a fit, because he is short in their suit.



There is no possible hand where you know that partner has queen fourth of support. Unless partner is a prophet, this must be a great surprise to him.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#15 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-August-26, 06:36

2H over 1S in their forcing, unlimited auction just
gives them a fielder's choice: X or show offensive hand.
Let alone blabbing where stuff is when they stretch to 4S.
After 2S comes back, now it looks a partial hand.
3H to try for its ours.
Because of VUL, partner downgrades S:Kx, but 4H is on.
Unfortunate. Put that K anywhere else then 4S.
Besides 4H must find HK, CQ, not S-ruff and trump promote.
I'd want to be in it but not crushed to miss.
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