[Quartic]

How should we have bid these hands?

Hand 1:

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5♦ was one off when the ♥ finesse failed. Should we be in 5♦, or can we stop in 4♦? Should East cue 4♠?

Hand 2:

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We gained some matchpoints for 13 tricks (J♦ lead) when most of the field also missed slam.

[AlexJonson]

1. I'd bid the first same way and off.

2. I'd bid 4S with the East hand rather than 3.

[bluecalm]

1)dbl would be better than 2!C in natural bidding but I guess you play support doubles there so it wasn't an option; I wouldn't cue bid, 4D was non-forcing (apparently) and there is no way we want to invite a slam with out Kx of spades.
The final contract looks fine though, so just tough luck

2)
-4S instead of 3S
-4H instead of 4S, W has very strong hand and it's clear they have hearts by now so 4H should means the same thing as in:

2H - 3S - pass - 4H

[Quartic]

bluecalm, on 2012-July-03, 05:22, said:

1)dbl would be better than 2!C in natural bidding but I guess you play support doubles there so it wasn't an option; I wouldn't cue bid, 4D was non-forcing (apparently) and there is no way we want to invite a slam with out Kx of spades.
The final contract looks fine though, so just tough luck

2)
-4S instead of 3S
-4H instead of 4S, W has very strong hand and it's clear they have hearts by now so 4H should means the same thing as in:

2H - 3S - pass - 4H

Actually we don't play support doubles, I just didn't think of doubling at the table. What should be the distinction between double and 2♣?

[bluecalm]

Quote

What should be the distinction between double and 2♣?

dbl = 16+hcp
2C = weakier

It allows you establish combined strength of hands easier (8+hcp is GF opposite such double).
Italians play this way I think it's superior way (to support dbl) in wide range openings context.

[daveharty]

Hand 1, I confess I probably would have opened the East hand 1NT. Hard to know how it would have gone from there.

Agree that 4S is a better bid than 3S on #2.

[Fluffy]

4♦ on the first one is slam try and forcing, and 4♠ is obvious with a maximum


The second one west has to cuebid, he is also worth a double of 2♦ if that includes 13-15 balanced hands.

[Quartic]

daveharty, on 2012-July-03, 06:50, said:

Hand 1, I confess I probably would have opened the East hand 1NT. Hard to know how it would have gone from there.

Agree that 4S is a better bid than 3S on #2.

1NT wasn't an option for me - we play 12-14.

I could have rebid 1NT, but I'd prefer a better ♠ stop, and probably better ♥ tolerance.

[Cyberyeti]

Hand 1:

You bid a 50% game, it didn't make, not too worried, if the spades had been QJ10xxx/Axxx, 4♠ could have been on and you'd have gone for a decent -100.

Hand 2:

To me 3♠ is a strong jump overcall type hand, I'd probably bid 4♠, but 3♠ is not ridiculous. W needs to do a lot more than 4♠. A stiff club, 6 solid spades is all W needs for a slam (given that he's going to have diamond honours too to have enough for the bid) or AKQxxx, xx, Kxxx, A which I would consider fairly minimum for 3♠.

[bluecalm]

Quote

4♦ on the first one is slam try and forcing

This is only matter of agreement imo and I think playing it as forcing is worse.
You can double or bid 3S with SI, you need a bid with decent, shapeish hand (like 5-5 in reds or something) because 3D could be bid on any kind of junk.
That said I prefer 3D on actual hand but make it x AQxxx xxxxx QT and it would be perfect 4D.

[kgr]

bluecalm, on 2012-July-03, 05:22, said:

2)
-4S instead of 3S
-4H instead of 4S, W has very strong hand and it's clear they have hearts by now so 4H should means the same thing as in:

2H - 3S - pass - 4H

Then he can as well bid 4♦?

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on 2012-July-03, 06:52, said:

4♦ on the first one is slam try and forcing, and 4♠ is obvious with a maximum

Apparently West thought so, too. I agree that the hand warrants 4D if that is their understanding. I don't believe all partnerships would think 4D is forcing, however.

It probably should be.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Then he can as well bid 4♦?

Yeah I missed we are passed hand so we can't have natural diamonds (at least not diamonds that good to warrant natural 4D here).
2D - 3S - p - 4D should probably be natural and forcing though.