[OrShoham]

I'm fairly new to 2/1 (OK, I'm really really new to 2/1), and I was curious as to how people play the following:
1♥-1NT-2♠
1♣-1♥-2♦
1♣-1♠-2♦
--
Obviously, these are forcing bids - but would anyone use them (particularly the latter two) to generate game force? Is there a better purpose for a minor suit reverse, perhaps checkback or some other form of asking bid?

Thanks,
Or

[Chamaco]

2/1 does not differ from SAYC-like systems for minor suit openings, so the latter 2 auctions are not contrained by the fact of playing 2/1.
You can play them as you like, both in SAYC and 2/1.

In undiscussed partnership, auction 2 and 3 show at least a minimum reverse, but are forcing for 1 round only.
A common gadget here is "Ingberman" (but make sure pard agrees on it...), when:
- any weak rebid/preference at 2 level is weak, NF
- any 3 level bid is GF
-2NT asks opener to bid 3C if h holds a minimum reverse (after which any 3 level bid is signoff), and bid something ese with stronger hand

Auction 1 instead, is constrained by 2/1 assumption, since responder has bid 1NT forcing.
2 spades, however, is a natural reverse, forcing one round.

[Fluffy]

It depends somehow on your 2NT rebids and your level 2 openings as well.

I myself play just 2♣ opening as game forcing, so I have some problems when having a strong monocolor worth game forcing only after partner didn´t pass my opening.

Some people use the minimum reverse to show this, this is not my case, my 2NT rebids are game forcing and can be not balanced, so my reverses are all naturals.

[PriorKnowledge]

Agree with Chamaco

Some details. After 1C 1H 2D. 2D is 1RF.
Responder's bids:
2H = 5+h, weak hand. Opener can pass or rebid 2N with min reverse and few h. Any other bid by opener is GF.

2N = 4h, weak hand(probably). Opener rebids 3C with a hand that does not want to play game opposite a min response. Any other rebid except 3C by opener is a GF. Over 3C, responder can then pass or sign-off in one of opener's suits. If responder then bids something else it is a GF, with specific meaning.

Any other bid by responder is a GF, including raising opener's original suit.

[Fluffy]

In my new system the inmediate bid after the reverse (not jump reverse): 1♣-1♥-2♦-2♥ is used as relay (cheapest voice forcing), something like 4sf, the reason is easy, you have an easyway to make opener describe his shape fully if you just let him bid freely.

[jtfanclub]

OrShoham, on Nov 18 2004, 08:19 AM, said:

I'm fairly new to 2/1 (OK, I'm really really new to 2/1), and I was curious as to how people play the following:
1♥-1NT-2♠
1♣-1♥-2♦
1♣-1♠-2♦
--
Obviously, these are forcing bids - but would anyone use them (particularly the latter two) to generate game force? Is there a better purpose for a minor suit reverse, perhaps checkback or some other form of asking bid?

Thanks,
Or

Interesting...

I've always played all three of those bids as nonforcing, especially the last two.

The concept is, when responder has a terrible fit (say, a singleton in your suit and 4 HCP), he may be forced to manufacture a bid. Even though opener is showing a lot of extra strength with his bid (in the 17-20 HCP range), he should be aware that with a manufactured response responder will pass.

This is particularly true with the minors. Your partner, with his 4 HCP and a nine card diamond fit, may very well decide that it's impossible to make anything at the five level, and 3NT is right out.

I guess I have a lot fewer forcing bids than most people. Ah well. Perhaps it's time for me to change my ways.

[pclayton]

In my partnership, these calls are non-forcing, only because my 2♣ opener has a low range. We still have an Ingberman style escape that lets us play opener's first suit at the 3 level.

If you don't have a call to show a limited opener, these really calls need to be forcing.