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Some explanation as to the bidding:
1NT = 15-17
2D = weak two in major
dbl = t/o to spades
S' pass after 2D = diamonds
Now our double would be penalty and 2N natural. Our choice ?
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Matchpoint decision
#1
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Posted 2012-June-08, 06:16
Some explanation as to the bidding:
1NT = 15-17
2D = weak two in major
dbl = t/o to spades
S' pass after 2D = diamonds
Now our double would be penalty and 2N natural. Our choice ?
#2
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Posted 2012-June-08, 06:22
I don't understand our pass on the previous round. Partner made a takeout double of spades and we have 4 hearts.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
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#3
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Posted 2012-June-08, 08:28
The Pass of 2DX truly makes no sense. Nevertheless, I answered the poll; a bid of 3H now would be a gross compounding of my previous error ---declaring hearts at the 3-level when only invited to do so at the two-level + expecting a stiff diamond lead thru dummy up to my JXX is not a welcome prospect.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#4
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Posted 2012-June-08, 09:04
Either I didn't understand your explanation of DBL or this is in the wrong forum.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
#5
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Posted 2012-June-08, 09:09
Why can't double be takeout of spades? I don't know the rest of their defense, but I don't see a problem with that.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#6
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Posted 2012-June-08, 11:18
Quote
Either I didn't understand your explanation of DBL or this is in the wrong forum.
The latter option.
I should've written t/o "of spades" I guess, anyway the double is t/o assuming the overcaller has spades.
Quote
I don't understand our pass on the previous round.
Yeah, I didn't think about it. Interestingly I polled some very good players including soon-to-be-national-team pair and they both pass here. I guess this is a blind spot of sorts as 2H makes perfect sense to me now. I guess I was blinded by going for blood attitude.
Anyway, what do we do now ?
#7
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Posted 2012-June-08, 12:40
bluecalm, on 2012-June-08, 11:18, said:
Anyway, what do we do now ?
Now I pass. Likely we both have 8-card fits, and we have KQ9 in their suit. They have a bit of a misfit. No reason to compete to the 3-level.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#8
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Posted 2012-June-08, 13:15
bluecalm, on 2012-June-08, 11:18, said:
I guess I was blinded by going for blood attitude.
From my experience, when LHO bids 2♦ to show a major, which is doubled, they have a tendency not to decide at this point to delcare 2♦ doubled with their 3-card fragment, even a really good fragment.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
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-P.J. Painter.
#9
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Posted 2012-June-08, 16:48
I wonder what double instead of pass would mean on partner's second turn, if its just extras then maybe we should pass out 2♠. 3♥ makes no sense, if we planed on bidding hearts we had to bid them the round before.
#10
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Posted 2012-June-08, 19:21
Just to clarify our opinion that the agreement by the opening side is a quite reasonable one:
1) Double is not needed as a mere start of a cooperative penalty situation when righty has shown a single suit.
2) Making the double show a t/o of spades, specifically, allows the opening side the most room. 2♥ can be a takeout of hearts, 2♠ can be used for the minors, and 2NT is Leben. A hand with just spades and less than invite can wait and then bid spades.
3) The opponents should still use 2♥ as P/C, and we can double with 4 hearts...we now know that their major is spades, but advancer didn't, yet.
4) When 4th chair passess to show 5+ diamonds we get to simply bid 2H.
It seems as if there is very little downside to the OP's agreement for the double.
1) Double is not needed as a mere start of a cooperative penalty situation when righty has shown a single suit.
2) Making the double show a t/o of spades, specifically, allows the opening side the most room. 2♥ can be a takeout of hearts, 2♠ can be used for the minors, and 2NT is Leben. A hand with just spades and less than invite can wait and then bid spades.
3) The opponents should still use 2♥ as P/C, and we can double with 4 hearts...we now know that their major is spades, but advancer didn't, yet.
4) When 4th chair passess to show 5+ diamonds we get to simply bid 2H.
It seems as if there is very little downside to the OP's agreement for the double.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#11
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Posted 2012-June-09, 04:07
Did someone say that double as takeout of spades is not a reasonable agreement?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
#12
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Posted 2012-June-09, 23:25
The pass of 2D X is absurd. Why play these methods if you don't know how to play the followups? This was a 2H bid. Now that I have butchered the bidding, I pass at this juncture. I do not want to play a likely 4-4 fit at the 3 level.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#13
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Posted 2012-June-10, 05:36
Isn't double obvious? We chose not 3H on
the last round - must be to get a crack
at 2S-X.
Hope partner has defense or a second suit
if pure shapely T/O Dbl of Spades (assumed).
Maybe we land in 3H when 2S-X won't succeed.
If this double fails, plain old 'bad judgment'.
the last round - must be to get a crack
at 2S-X.
Hope partner has defense or a second suit
if pure shapely T/O Dbl of Spades (assumed).
Maybe we land in 3H when 2S-X won't succeed.
If this double fails, plain old 'bad judgment'.
#14
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Posted 2012-June-10, 09:05
I agree that W should have bid 2h over the original x and then
E would have been much better placed to continue the bidding.
Having passed and knowing P had to be at least invitational
we need to choose btn x or nt or h (belatedly). Leaving the opps
in 2s at MP is probably the kiss of death. I favor x mostly
because we have the vast majority of the power and still no
guarantee of a game. If we manage a 1 trick set it is probably
a superb MP score and if the opps make we will most likely
have lost little in the way of MP. P failure to x again should limit
their hand to invitational.
E would have been much better placed to continue the bidding.
Having passed and knowing P had to be at least invitational
we need to choose btn x or nt or h (belatedly). Leaving the opps
in 2s at MP is probably the kiss of death. I favor x mostly
because we have the vast majority of the power and still no
guarantee of a game. If we manage a 1 trick set it is probably
a superb MP score and if the opps make we will most likely
have lost little in the way of MP. P failure to x again should limit
their hand to invitational.
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