[whereagles]

What do you think of the following deal:

Scoring: IMP


West North East South
2♦........??

West's 2D is weak, 5 or 6 cards.

---

1. Should North double 2♦ for take-out? If so, what should South bid?
2. If North passes, should South balance 2♥?
3. If South balances 2♥, should North give him a raise? If so, how?

[the hog]

Is this a serious question or is it April 1st?
Nth has a clear cut 100% pass. South should bid 2H, Nth a cue raise and Sth 3H, end of story.

[inquiry]

North most clearly SHOULD NOT bid over 2♦. For goodness sake, this isn't even close.

South has a tougher decision. His KQx of diamonds is not wonderful. Rho might be trapping with out a diamond fit but with a good hand, and the vulnerabilty make bidding dangerous. Add to that, partner could not take direct action over 2♦ so that game is very remote indeed. In addition, 5332 is not great distribution and the hearts are not particularly strong, and I have only 6HCP outside of "their suit." So as south, at imps, PASS has to be be strongly considered, and I would in fact pass this hand.

However, 2♥ would work out on a lot of hands. It is the fear of RHO trapping with diamond misfit that would keep me from bidding here with such a weak suit and weak values outside of diamonds. But if south does balances with a 2♥ bid, north is too good to pass this out, so a raise to 3♥ will end the auction (well maybe 3Hx will end the auction).

[Chamaco]

The_Hog, on Nov 10 2004, 01:52 PM, said:

Is this a serious question or is it April 1st?
Nth has a clear cut 100% pass. South should bid 2H, Nth a cue raise and Sth 3H, end of story.

2D-pass-pass-2H
pass-4H all pass

With a stronger hand, South could have jump-bid 3H, so N does not need a cue, no real slam ambitions.

I 'd rather take advantage of this to ask the following:

2D-pass-pass-2H
pass-?

Now, would North's 2NT be:

1) a good/bad raise,
2) a Lebensohl-like relay (e.g. keeping open a rescue to 3m, and not necessarily guaranteeing H fit, as good-bad NT would guarantee)
3) natural
4) or what ?

[Free]

North ALWAYS passes, South bids 2♥, North raises to 3♥. If West bids his ♠s at 2-level, it doesn't change a thing for us, just support and stay in 3♥ or something higher they play...

[whereagles]

Chamaco, on Nov 10 2004, 03:02 PM, said:

I'd rather take advantage of this to ask the following:

2D-pass-pass-2H
pass-?

Now, would North's 2NT be:

1) a good/bad raise,
2) a Lebensohl-like relay (e.g. keeping open a rescue to 3m, and not necessarily guaranteeing H fit, as good-bad NT would guarantee)
3) natural
4)  or what ?

Well, there is some need for 2NT to be natural here. Otherwise you'd have no way to bid a balanced hand with 13-14 or thereabouts. A 3D cue could be a strong heart raise, with 3H a slightly weaker raise.

Another important question is whether for instance 3C now would be a fit-non-jump or natural with 10 hcp and 6 clubs (say Axx xx xx KQxxxx).

[Fluffy]

Norht lacks 5 HCP and has 1 ♦ more than suposed to double, so he is very far from it.

South has an standard 2♥ reopening.

North has a decision to make, his hand may be considered fr a 3♦ cue raise, or just a single 3♥ raise, I´d go for the second one.

If North picks 3♦ south may bid game (partner is 12-13), but the proper bid is 3♥.

[flytoox]

Chamaco, on Nov 10 2004, 02:02 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Nov 10 2004, 01:52 PM, said:

Is this a serious question or is it April 1st?
Nth has a clear cut 100% pass. South should bid 2H, Nth a cue raise and Sth 3H, end of story.

2D-pass-pass-2H
pass-4H all pass

With a stronger hand, South could have jump-bid 3H, so N does not need a cue, no real slam ambitions.

I 'd rather take advantage of this to ask the following:

2D-pass-pass-2H
pass-?

Now, would North's 2NT be:

1) a good/bad raise,
2) a Lebensohl-like relay (e.g. keeping open a rescue to 3m, and not necessarily guaranteeing H fit, as good-bad NT would guarantee)
3) natural
4) or what ?

I think in this case, playing 2N as gf is very sensible, otherwise just pass.

[pclayton]

Agree with the sage posters that suggest a 2♥ balance and a gentle 3♥ raise on the 11 count. 4♥ is a serious overbid.

2N over the 2♥ balance is natural. While most of the time I like 2N to be a gadget, I think over the bidder its best used as natural; and will come up more often anyway.

You might talk me into transfer advances here though.

[inquiry]

pclayton, on Nov 10 2004, 12:45 PM, said:

Agree with the sage posters that suggest a 2♥ balance and a gentle 3♥ raise on the 11 count. 4♥ is a serious overbid.

Yes, four hearts by north is a serious overbid. Pass by north first, and a gentle game try (3D or 3H) after a reopen are both very clear.

The real question here here is, should south balance at all.

Here is what we know. Partner is not making a trap pass waiting for our reopen double (we have KQx in their suit). Partner didn't have enough to make a bid over 2D, so he either has wrong shape for takeout double (read 3 little diamonds), or not enough values. Our hand has half its values in their suit, which might get ruffed away. And our shape, is well, not great.

Will no one else at least consider passing in the balance seat at imps? At matchpoints the balance is automatic, if you get wacked by a trapping EAST, it is only one board...and the field will balance. But at imps? Vulnerable? You have no real game aspirations after your partners pass, so what is the risk/reward rato on this hand? With them having either misfit in diamonds or too many of the hcp (given partners pass), isn't defending two diamonds wth this hand at least partially attractive?

Ben

[whereagles]

Another point balancer could consider is the following: pard rates to be short in diamonds, and yet he passed. That must be because he's too weak to double (which is the case), so game is practically out of the question, making pass more attractive.

[pclayton]

Pass is a good call. I'll admit 2♥ is something of a reflex bid. ....: "No-bo-dy pu-shes a-round me...hrmph hrmph"

On reflection, pass could be the right call, very easily.

I'm wondering if pass is better or IMPs or MPs. At IMPs, I'm worried about a balanced 13 or 14 over in pard's seat, which makes 3N very playable. And at MPs, I'm concerned about +50 or +100 vs +110.

Jury's still out for me obviously.

[HeartA]

North should PASS over 2D and raise to 3H after South's 2H overcall. end of story.