[Gerben47]

If you open 1♣ partner will need a lot of convincing to play 4♠ in the alleged 4-3 fit. Since 3♣ shows extra's I don't rebid that with a minimum but I rebid 2♠. If 6♣ is right partner will probably bid 3♣ next or 2NT and then I bid 3♣.

I will consider opening 1♣ only on good 6-card ♣ with 5♠ and a strong hand.

[Fluffy]

Open 1♠, regardless of the strenght, EVEN having a 6th ♣, it doesn´t matter, just open your 5 card major.
Rebid of 2♠ doesn´t promise a 6th card after a 2♦ response on any system that cares about of rebid problems.

[inquiry]

Gerben47, on Nov 10 2004, 10:50 AM, said:

If you open 1♣ partner will need a lot of convincing to play 4♠ in the alleged 4-3 fit. Since 3♣ shows extra's I don't rebid that with a minimum but I rebid 2♠. If 6♣ is right partner will probably bid 3♣ next or 2NT and then I bid 3♣.

I will consider opening 1♣ only on good 6-card ♣ with 5♠ and a strong hand.

Well, the only reason your partner will need a lot of convincing to play spades is becasue YOU don't open 5-5 in the blacks with clubs...

If, for instance, you routinely did... a simple

1C-1D
1S-whatever
2S <--- will paint the picture you need to paint.

BTW, take a look at matchpiont games where 4-3 major fit games often do very well indeed, as long as a ruff can be had in the hand with three trumps. So maybe it shouldn't be hard to convince your partner to play some 4-3 fits anyway.

[pclayton]

whereagles, on Nov 10 2004, 02:42 AM, said:

Didn't read it all, but here goes an opinion (not mine, lol). The french school recommends the following:

With a weak hand (11-15) open 1S, so that you can compete if opps butt-in.

With a strong hand (16+) open 1C, so that when you rebid spades pard will know you have a strong 55. Note that with a strong hand opps are less likely to butt-in, so you should concentrate in constructive bidding.

What do I think of this? I open 1S all the time

In the States, I believe the opposite is true. With a weak 5-5 (maybe this is a middlish, since I'd open with a Q less), open 1♣. With a stronger 5-5, open 1♠, since you can 'high reverse' later.

20 years ago, this was an automatic 1♣ opener. I'm betting that a lot of the 1♠ openers are under 40 and the 1♣ openers are over.

[inquiry]

If you are taking a poll, I am over 40... and I very much tend to open 1C

[xx1943]

When I was young I opened 1♠ whenever I had 5 even a 5017 and 5008 I never got.

But now I'm old I open sometimes 1♣; sometimes 1♠.

Some of the above posts are very interesting, when to do.

Ben's deliberations about vulnerablility.

Or the question if the hand must be weak or strong to qualify for 1♣.

I'm very interested in the question, if 1♠ p 2♦ p 3♣ shows extra strength or even extras bey declarer.
IN SAYC it is a high reverse and shows 16+. What about 2/1. I'll start a new poll.

Many thks for all the interesting ideas.

Al

[PriorKnowledge]

Playing 2/1 (not SAYC), regular reverse after a 2/1 (1♦ 2♣ 2♥) does not show extras, but high reverse (1♠ 2♦ 3♣) still shows extras.