[Free]

Perhaps Ben can give us a clue

[inquiry]

Free, on Nov 8 2004, 09:59 AM, said:

Perhaps Ben can give us a clue 

What makes you think I have a clue?

This is a real world hand, that I kibitzed, auction as given up to this point, and then some fun discussion after the hand by players and kibitzers.

In my younger days, this jump to 5HEART would ask for slam with a control in clubs. The reason being, after the spade "cue-bid", when support is shown, it use to turn the general cue-bid into a control cue-bid. A second meaning with jump to 5 of a major when oppenents have overcalled is to bid slam with control of their suit... and with the cue-bid no longer promising or denying control of their suit, would seem to fit into that category.

Now, in my older, and wiser days, I am in no hurry to leap to 5H's as my cue-bid just establish general force. And these days, I cue-bid Kings or Aces up the line, and I use last train to clarksville, so there is no need to jump to 5H if I am interested in club control. Over 2NT, I can bid a slam invitational 3H and see if we can cue-bid normally to slam. So, the "you must control" clubs bid slam hand is removed. It is refreshing to see so few picked 5H as bid slam with club control... I would think maybe Flame's excellent, and logical reason why 5H can't be asking for club stopper swayed a lot of the potential voters, since this was a popular interpretation at the table among kibitzers and one of the players.

So if you need a control in either black suit, you could merrily bid 3H and walk through cue-bidding situation (if of course, opponents remain silent). So what does that leave here? Since 3H is game force, and slam interest, 5H has to be bid slam with good hearts. The question becomes, how good of hearts should we have to have, considering partner must have a lot of controls and didn't use blackwood? I think, given we were forced to bid 2NT, and we might be considerably weaker than this, heart KQ8x has to be good enough (it was), and I might would bid 5NT (pick a slam) on way to six hearts as 7D might be possible.

I thought more votes for with club control would be here...i did expect the group of bid slam with a spade control...but logically, looking at KQ of hearts, how can partner be inviting slam with club or spade control, since you promised only xxxx in hearts with your heart bid?

Ben

[Free]

inquiry, on Nov 8 2004, 06:08 PM, said:

Free, on Nov 8 2004, 09:59 AM, said:

Perhaps Ben can give us a clue 

What makes you think I have a clue?

This is a real world hand, that I kibitzed, auction as given up to this point, and then some fun discussion after the hand by players and kibitzers.

Since you've kibitzed this hand, you might give us the full hand + history how it went further. That's what I meant actually...

[junyi_zhu]

inquiry, on Nov 6 2004, 05:26 AM, said:

The bidding goes...

West North East South

- Pass Pass 1♦
Pass 1♥ 1♠ 2♠
Dbl 2NT Pass 5♥

You are to answer what your partner's 5♥ bid means.

Bonus, based upon your answer, you may want to say what you bid with the following hand.

---

most world class players wouldn't even have an agreement on this one I guess.
5H is extremely space consuming so it must be a picture bid showing extreme details
that no other sequences can show. That makes it a puzzle. With 4 hearts support
balanced, opener can just bid 3H over 2NT which is forcing, with 4 hearts support
shortness somwehere, she can bid 3S over 1S or 4C over 1S. With long diamonds
and 4 card heart support, she can bid 4D over 1S to show it. So 5H can't show 4 card
support in hearts because we have a neat way to show all these patterns at low level.
So it can only be strong diamond one suiter hands and grandslam invitation.
However, why can't opener bid 3D to show it? One problem is that 3D over 2NT doesn't
really set up trumps as diamond, it just shows a strong one suiter. So opener may not
have an easy way to set up trumps at three level. A possible way is to bid 3S over 2NT to set up trumps in D and then RKC later, but she may have a problem if she holds a void in heart and still want to RKC. Also, partner's failure to redouble 2S usually denies SA. A possible holding is something like this:S- H- DAKQxxxxx CKQJT9, so actually she uses 5H as an ERKC showing void in hearts and strong diamond suit.because she knows if partner holds CA, she'd like to play in 7D, something like: S- H- DKQJTxxxx CAKQJT
is also possible.

[LH2650]

bearmum, on Nov 7 2004, 06:33 AM, said:

RKCB  only asks  what Key cards  in ♥ held [not length of the suit -the way I have played it for about 20 years ] --  so I keep my original answer -- "BID 6♥ WITH A good (and presumably LONG) ♥ suit 

If responder has bad, short hearts, he may be going down in 5. I would play opener for 5♥ and 6♦ if I could think up a hand that matched the bidding. Maybe Ax, Axxxx, AKQxxx, void, but that belongs in 7♦ opposite the actual responding hand, and I don't think I'd bid it this way. Several hands have been proposed by others that could belong in ♦, and I would expect a World Class player to cater to that. Also, the opponent's bidding seems to indicate a lack of distribution around the table.