Appeals, does you club have them
#1
Posted 2004-November-02, 10:23
Just a curiosity question. Does your local club allow for appeals? Please vote for each club you attent.
Edit: I can only seem to vote for one club, don't know why...
Thanks
Brian
#2
Posted 2004-November-02, 10:46
BrianEDuran, on Nov 2 2004, 12:23 PM, said:
Just a curiosity question. Does your local club allow for appeals? Please vote for each club you attent.
Edit: I can only seem to vote for one club, don't know why...
Thanks
Brian
Each person can only vote once in any poll... if you wanted to allow muliple voites, you could have worded teh answers something like..
One club - yes
One club - no
Two club - both no
Two clubs - both yes
Two clubs - one yes, one no,
Etc...
There is a limit of 20 options for answers for any poll.
ben
#3
Posted 2004-November-02, 11:22
#4
Posted 2004-November-02, 11:59
#5
Posted 2004-November-03, 13:37
We follow national guidelines, requiring a deposit (I think it's £20) which is returned as long as the AC deems the appeal has merit.
We are lucky that the club has a significant number of experienced players and directors who have served on county and national ACs.
paul
#7
Posted 2004-November-03, 14:55
I don't understand the antipathy towards appeals commmittees expressed by some posters. It seems silly to trust a random director more than an appeals committee. I readily admit that some committees have been badly flawed (How the $^#*&#@ does Wolff ever get selected for these), however, this is why well run appeals committes pushlish their findings and subject their decisions to peer review...
http://home.worldcom...b/appealse.html contains several examples of peer reviews
#8
Posted 2004-November-03, 15:54
(I agree with richard here, why "thank goodness", Peter?)
#9
Posted 2004-November-03, 16:19
Directors make mistakes, alas appeal committee is needed. Naturally in a club this is not used very often as the atmosphere is more relaxed.
This is especially important if you have club tournaments that have some kind of prize, monetary or otherwise.
#10
Posted 2004-November-03, 16:32
"(I agree with richard here, why "thank goodness", Peter?)"
Club games, as least the ones I go to, are more relaxed, less competitive, and consequently have less bad behavior than the tournaments I've gone to. I like this, though I like going to tournaments once in a while, too. A different experience.
Leave appeals for tournaments, where they belong. Treating club games as if they were tournaments would degrade behavior, which is in some cases bad enough. In theory, this wouldn't happen. In practice, it would, at least at my club. It would encourage the jerks, which would then have a ripple effect. The small increase in "bridge justice" wouldn't be worth it.
I see this issue as comparable to that of ratings on BBO. In theory, how could it hurt? In practice...
On a more general note, I took up bridge about two years ago, and love it, but some of the behavior is appalling. The lack of sportsmanship in a game played by adults for no money is remarkable, worse than anything I experienced playing sports in school. Too bad.
A lot of experienced bridge players who behave well themselves have apparently developed callouses with regard to bad behavior by others, and that's fine for them.
But this behavior drives beginners away from club bridge in droves.
I expected people to disagree with my post. I hope I've made the reasons for my position clear.
Peter
#11
Posted 2004-November-03, 16:41
#12
Posted 2004-November-06, 07:48
Not for me...
The BBO Stars private club manager...
#13
Posted 2004-November-06, 09:19
Since I can remember (and it's been a while ) I've never been in a club where there were no appeals committees. Granted, those were ad hoc as the most tables we'd ever get is 25, but let me tell you, that committee was made up of the top players who today are at the top of their profession and who are very fair.
The appeals committees are not there to reprimand jerks. They're there to ensure fairness. I don't understand why you'd say "thank goodness". The appeals committees deal with bidding and play, not behavior. Once you distinguish the two, the light will shine again
Jola
#14
Posted 2004-November-06, 09:51
After the tourney if the Member disagrees with the outcome - they are encouraged to write an email to the Club and it goes through review of our Advisors. Takes a little extra work and commitment but hopefully keeps us all comfy.
(btw) when all else fails - we have a TD is always right philosophy. Standing by your valued TD's works well for us.
#15
Posted 2004-November-06, 11:05
"The appeals committees are not there to reprimand jerks. They're there to ensure fairness. I don't understand why you'd say "thank goodness". The appeals committees deal with bidding and play, not behavior. Once you distinguish the two, the light will shine again"
More than a bit condescending, don't you think?
You apparently didn't read my post carefully. I understand the function of appeals committees, and I am not concerned about their competence or fairness. My point was that their very presence would encourage poorly behaving, overcompetitive players to become more so, if they knew the director's word wasn't final, as I said:
"In theory, this wouldn't happen. In practice, it would, at least at my club. It would encourage the jerks, which would then have a ripple effect. The small increase in "bridge justice" wouldn't be worth it."
If I get a bad ruling once in a while in a friendly club game, I could care less. I play in club games to relax and have fun. Not all players have this attitude, and this makes some of them unpleasant to play against (or to listen to at the next table). I don't want ANYTHING done which would increase this. That's why I say "thank goodness".
Peter
#16
Posted 2004-November-06, 11:42
I'd be curious to find out if the existence of appeal committees indeed increases the 'jerk' behavior.
Jola
#17
Posted 2004-November-06, 12:54
I'd be curious to find out if the existence of appeal committees indeed increases the 'jerk' behavior."
Well, I don't think you can run a simulation
But perform this mental exercise: would 'jerk' behavior go down if clubs stopped awarding masterpoints?
Peter
#18
Posted 2004-November-06, 17:51
Are there less jerks on BBO just because there is no rating of players?
Jola
#19
Posted 2004-November-06, 18:14
I doubt it, but if there were ratings, many jerks would act worse than they do now, having "more to lose".
A basic law of human behavior I have observed: the higher the stakes, the worse some people act. Perhaps your experience is different?
Peter
#20
Posted 2004-November-07, 09:14
Obviously my experience has been different or else we would not be having this discussion
Jola