BBO Discussion Forums: A New System. Do you need it ? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 6 Pages +
  • « First
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

A New System. Do you need it ? ForcePoint Counting/Bidding

#61 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-01, 07:43

Flame, on Nov 30 2004, 10:10 AM, said:

Pavell, on Nov 29 2004, 08:15 PM, said:

Obviously you didn't read a row of the system, and I do not know why you ask ?!

I'll tell you why, its because your system is not the only one in the world, there are lots of them, infact nothing in your system is new, most of the systems face te same problems, and one of those problem, is how much you can load on the 1c bid to take off from the other bids, some things it should be 17+ some 16+ and moscito is trying 15+ but the players of it "complained" more then once that its very vulnarable to interference, and now you come out of now were with 1c=B2 and claim you can handle it without a problem, we dont have to know this specific system, to know that its not true.

- I still can not understand you. ForcePoint uses 1 opening (B2+, any shape), only when it can not use any of the other strategically posted openings, which narrow enough the possibilietis of the declared "any shape". It is not the bid of 1 which can handle a system. ForcePoint has a mechanism for discovering the EXACT partner's shape below 4. And because it is dynamic, the opps bids can not do much harm. By other hand, the sum of both partner's B# shows the game's Play Level (PL). With this information, and some elementary adjustments, even a Beginer will be cappable to make the same fine contracts, which you do, using your 15 years Conventions knowleges. If that is the problem, I'm pass.
- And for your surprise, I will tell you that ForcePoint doesn't have most of the other system problems, because its bids are strictly synonimous and cristal clear for your partner. You do not have even a range of HCP to handle, if you have a FIT and the sum of your B# is 5, you can play 5 in the fit's suit or 3NT, but if your PlayLevel (PL) = 4, you can NOT play 5, because you NEVER will make it. That's a big difference with the other systems. With them you do not know what is your exact PL, with Fp it is enough to exchange with your partner the fit(s) and the B# information to find the best contract.
- On the hand below, South opened 1 with B2+, any shape. The opps are pass. But that is not interesting for you. So try to reach 5 with your system:

6
KT976
QJT
6543

T94
A
AK98
AKT84
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

#62 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2004-December-01, 08:26

Pavell, on Dec 1 2004, 02:43 PM, said:

- On the hand below, South opened 1 with B2+, any shape. The opps are pass. But that is not interesting for you. So try to reach 5 with your system:

6
KT976
QJT
6543

T94
A
AK98
AKT84

1 - 1NT
2 - 2NT
3 - 3
3 - 3
4 - 4
4 - 5
6

1 = 15+ any
1NT = semipositive, unbalanced with 5+
2NT = 5+, 4, short
3 = 1-5-3-4
3 = 3 SlamPoints
4 = 1/2 tophonours , 0 tophonours
5 = 1/2 tophonours , exactly 1 tophonour
South only relays

It depends on the mood if we bid slam or not, you need 2-2 split... We know partner holds the following:
x
Kxxxx
Qxx
xxxx
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#63 User is offline   tysen2k 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 406
  • Joined: 2004-March-25

Posted 2004-December-01, 12:44

6
KT976
QJT
6543

T94
A
AK98
AKT84

Pavell, please indulge us with two examples. Please show us how these 2 hands bid when South opens 1 and West overcalls 3.

Now do the same for these 2 hands (which I assume is still a 1 opening):

6
KT976
QJT
6543

T94
A
K842
AT852
A bit of blatant self-pimping - I've got a new poker book that's getting good reviews.
0

#64 User is offline   MarceldB 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 2004-March-18
  • Location:Rotterdam, The Netherlands

Posted 2004-December-01, 14:43

Thank you very much for your extended reply.

I have some questions left:
I have altered Q in Q

AKxx-------- xx
AJxx--------- Qx
KQ----------- Jxxxxxx
AKx---------- xx

4NT and an answer: 5 = J in the longest suit + Q
I suppose you meant this sequence in the framework of your quote
>This one can freeze the blood of any Bidding Developer, ?

---------------

Axx--------- xx
Axx--------- xxx
AKQx------- Jx
xxx--------- AKQxxx
J investigated?
Sorry, I did not realize that East would be the relayer.
So same question and J placed now in East.
West has the same bid of 3, East now 3 and finally 6NT as contract ?

-----------------
West's hand slightly altered:
Axx--------- xxx
Axxx-------- xx
AKJ--------- Qxxxxx
Axx---------- xxx

PL maintains 3
But Q is now an important issue.

----------------
Regarding stopper(s) asking/showing matter & control asking/showing matter:
included in your system too?
There are enough circumstances to have stopper info in case an exact distribution is not (so) important. Or even in a slam region to know on forehand on a low(er) level where the points are located and if they will work.

Or a control asking/showing and the possibility if that control is the right one to continue the distribution sequence. Instead of hearing after the distribution relay and the (expected) CPA that the control is in the wrong suit and the contract could be to high already. (xxx opposite xxx whilst f.e. 4S must be the contract although you have all the honours/tricks in the other 3 suits)

-12-02-04 added:
example:

West or East dealer
xxx-----------Qxx
AQxxx--------KJxxx
KQJx----------Ax
A--------------KQJ
4 is the limit
I can imagine that the stiff Ace -seeing what that's worth in your pointcount system- could influence badly the final contract in case you don't know on forehand the lack of an important control.

whilst with a Queen less in East:
(west or east dealer: purpose is that west=relayer
xxx-----------Axx
AQxxx--------KJxxx
KQJx----------xx
A--------------KQJ

you will feel comfortable to do a slam investigation

----------------------
and finally in the framework of bidding the correct slam ànd in the correct hand:

W/non or East : purpose is that East will be the relayer
KJxx---------98xx
AJxxx------- KQ
x-------------AKQ
AJx-----------KQxx

W/non or East : purpose is now that West will be the relayer
KJxx---------98xx
AQxxx------- KJ
x--------------AKQ
AQx-----------KJxx

as you will understand a matter of "Jack juggle".
West or East relayer apart of the fact that in my opinion the balanced hand should be normally the relayer.

Thanks for your reply,

regards,
Marcel

This post has been edited by MarceldB: 2004-December-02, 14:19

freedom to use any bidding system
is vital to the development of bidding theory

Lukasz Slawinski, 1978
0

#65 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2004-December-01, 15:02

Hi Pavell,

I applaud your attempt to bring order to disorder (bidding). If you read these forums, you will see that I have a very experimental nature. I have tried a lot of systems, and about every convention around (nothing really helps me of course, as judgement is what is important)... Having applaud you and having said i like new things, I still have to agree with many of the posters here. The Forcepoint system claims sound too much like claims made by a snake oil salesman.

I think you need to tone down your rheteric and spend more time explaining (if you want to charge for all the detalis, fine, then add some national championships or regional championships) to support your claims.

I did notice a first place on ACBL event you had. To be honest with you, no one puts much weight beind big on line scores.... it is too easy to, (ahem) get good results by less than legal means (I do not mean to imply anything by this statement.) However, I don't imply you got these results by any ohter than fully honest results. However, the implication from your webpage http://bullbridge.com/generic44.html from this sunday, august 22nd 2004 ACBL tournment is that Forcepoint accounted for your huge win. But most of us here on the Bridge Base Forum (as you have found out) are skeptics.. .we are like 100 people all from the show me state, Missouri. The ACBL tourment was only 12 boards long. Why not post all the hands and show us how Forcepoint lead the wonderful contracts and how you used it to lord over the opponents. For instance, if your system landed you in 8 wonderful contracts, that would be very convincing. On the other hand, what would it mean if you got to five horrible contracts on which the defense was worse than your bidding? What would it mean if your opponents got to three horrible spots all by themselves, and you got very good results by that mean? What would it mean if out of 12 hands, you had only one great contract, and even that auction seems not consitent with your own forcepoint notes?

I am not saying any of these are true. But since you hold up the ACBL result as an example of the bidding power of the forcepoint method, are you willing to post the very hands (only 12 hands in ACBL events) to show us the effectiveness of your system in the wild. Sort of a real world test?

Ben
--Ben--

#66 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-02, 10:40

inquiry, on Dec 1 2004, 04:02 PM, said:

Hi Pavell,

I applaud your attempt to bring order to disorder (bidding). If you read these forums, you will see that I have a very experimental nature. I have tried a lot of systems, and about every convention around (nothing really helps me of course, as judgement is what is important)... Having applaud you and having said i like new things, I still have to agree with many of the posters here. The Forcepoint system claims sound too much like claims made by a snake oil salesman.

I think you need to tone down your rheteric and spend more time explaining (if you want to charge for all the detalis, fine, then add some national championships or regional championships) to support your claims.

I did notice a first place on ACBL event you had. To be honest with you, no one puts much weight beind big on line scores.... it is too easy to, (ahem) get good results by less than legal means (I do not mean to imply anything by this statement.) However, I don't imply you got these results by any ohter than fully honest results. However, the implication from your webpage http://bullbridge.com/generic44.html from this sunday, august 22nd 2004 ACBL tournment is that Forcepoint accounted for your huge win. But most of us here on the Bridge Base Forum (as you have found out) are skeptics.. .we are like 100 people all from the show me state, Missouri. The ACBL tourment was only 12 boards long. Why not post all the hands and show us how Forcepoint lead the wonderful contracts and how you used it to lord over the opponents.  For instance, if your system landed you in 8 wonderful contracts, that would be very convincing. On the other hand, what would it mean if you got to five horrible contracts on which the defense was worse than your bidding? What would it mean if your opponents got to three horrible spots all by themselves, and you got very good results by that mean? What would it mean if out of 12 hands, you had only one great contract, and even that auction seems not consitent with your own forcepoint notes?

I am not saying any of these are true. But since you hold up the ACBL result as an example of the bidding power of the forcepoint method, are you willing to post the very hands (only 12 hands in ACBL events) to show us the effectiveness of your system in the wild. Sort of a real world test?

Ben

- The pairs #63 ACBL Tournament was won using the light version of ForcePoint, Nell's ForcePoint before BBO to forbid using it, because of the opening bids of 1NT and 2, which although alerted properly, and not multi, distracted the casual players, by TD's opinion
1NT = 10+, any bi-color
2 = 10+, unbalanced with Void
- I do not have the time to put the actual games here, I know very well you can find them on http://bridgebase.com/myhands
- Pay attention that I do not care at all if somebody like or dislike ForcePoint. I have published it, if somebody look for a strong accurate Bidding. Do not expect from me to go even to regional championship. I do not have time for that.
- The only thing I would want to do is to find a programmer to finish the ForcePoint's source code, and go to Canada against GIB and JACK. But I may assure you that this also won't probably happen, because it requires a lot of money and time. I have lost already 12 years to create it, and I think it is more than enough, so if you want to use some of it, find it alone, if not, my advice is to forget about Fp, no big deal.
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

#67 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-02, 10:47

MarceldB, on Dec 1 2004, 03:43 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your extended reply.

I have some questions left:
I have altered Q in Q

AKxx-------- xx
AJxx--------- Qx
KQ----------- Jxxxxxx
AKx---------- xx

4NT  and an answer: 5 = J in the longest suit + Q
I suppose you meant this sequence in the framework of your quote
>This one can freeze the blood of any Bidding Developer, ?

---------------

Axx--------- xx
Axx--------- xxx
AKQx------- Jx
xxx--------- AKQxxx
J investigated?
Sorry, I did not realize that East would be the relayer.
So same question and J placed now in East.
West has the same bid of 3, East now 3 and finally 6NT as contract ?

-----------------
West's hand slightly altered:
Axx--------- xxx
Axxx-------- xx
AKJ--------- Qxxxxx
Axx---------- xxx

PL maintains 3
But Q is now an important issue.

----------------
Regarding stopper(s) asking/showing matter & control asking/showing matter:
included in your system too?
There are enough circumstances to have stopper info in case an exact distribution is not (so) important. Or even in a slam region to know on forehand on a low(er) level where the points are located and if they will work.

Or a control asking/showing and the possibility if that control is the right one to continue the distribution sequence. Instead of hearing after the distribution relay and the (expected) CPA that the control is in the wrong suit and the contract could be to high already. (xxx opposite xxx whilst f.e. 4S must be the contract although you have all the honours/tricks in the other 3 suits)

-12-02-04 added:
example:

West or East dealer
xxx-----------Qxx
AQxxx--------KJxxx
KQJx----------Ax
A--------------KQJ
4 is the limit
I can imagine that the stiff Ace -seeing what that's worth in your pointcount system- could influence badly the final contract in case you don't know on forehand the lack of an important control.

whilst with a Queen less in East:
(west or east dealer: purpose is  that west=relayer
xxx-----------Axx
AQxxx--------KJxxx
KQJx----------xx
A--------------KQJ

you will feel comfortable to do a slam investigation

----------------------
and finally in the framework of bidding the correct slam ànd in the correct hand:

W/non  or East : purpose is that East will be the relayer
KJxx---------98xx
AJxxx------- KQ
x-------------AKQ
AJx-----------KQxx

W/non  or East : purpose is now that West will be the relayer
KJxx---------98xx
AQxxx------- KJ
x--------------AKQ
AQx-----------KJxx

as you will understand a matter of "Jack juggle"

Thanks for your reply,

regards,
Marcel

- Sorry Marcel, I do not have time to answer your 4 new questions about the Slam games. I already lost for you enough time. All system's principles are published. If you are interested, you have to be able to find out all answers. My further explanations won't help you, if you do not start to think alone. Pay attention only to one thing: if your PL < 6, you do not need to make any Honors investigations, the Counting is enough accuracy to provide to you the right contract based only on your Play Level (PL). Success.
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

#68 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2004-December-02, 11:18

Pavell, on Dec 2 2004, 12:40 PM, said:

- I do not have the time to put the actual games here, I know very well you can find them on http://bridgebase.com/myhands

Ok.. I didn't realize you were so short of time that you could not open your log files, use linconverter and then paste the hands here on BBO. As far as "anyone" going to myhands and seeing your results, you may not know this, but myhands only goes back two or three weeks. So hands from August (and September, and october, and some of November for that matter) are no longer posted there. So, no, people can not go back that far to find your hands or their own hands.

Of course, people could, if they ware interested look at any hands you (or I or anyone else) play in the last couple weeks on BBO at the myhand site. However, it is possible for me to dredge up the hands from August 22 and post them here with a some effort on my part. Of couse I will not understand the Fp auctions so I haven't bothered (if I studied Fp, I would want to look at how you use it by looking at old hands you play). But since your win in this event is the example of of how your system performs in action ("The above snapshoot of NFP's achivement on one ACBL Tournament" referring to the August 22 game), I am willing to do this work to post the 12 hands here to bolster your arguements. I just don't want to go the effort to post the hands if they will just sit here without explaination or if you would object for some reason for your hands to be published in this public forum (maybe they are part of the material you are selling, for instance).

Good luck with your system.

Ben
--Ben--

#69 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-02, 16:40

inquiry, on Dec 2 2004, 12:18 PM, said:

Pavell, on Dec 2 2004, 12:40 PM, said:

- I do not have the time to put the actual games here, I know very well you can find them on http://bridgebase.com/myhands

Ok.. I didn't realize you were so short of time that you could not open your log files, use linconverter and then paste the hands here on BBO. As far as "anyone" going to myhands and seeing your results, you may not know this, but myhands only goes back two or three weeks. So hands from August (and September, and october, and some of November for that matter) are no longer posted there. So, no, people can not go back that far to find your hands or their own hands.

Of course, people could, if they ware interested look at any hands you (or I or anyone else) play in the last couple weeks on BBO at the myhand site. However, it is possible for me to dredge up the hands from August 22 and post them here with a some effort on my part. Of couse I will not understand the Fp auctions so I haven't bothered (if I studied Fp, I would want to look at how you use it by looking at old hands you play). But since your win in this event is the example of of how your system performs in action ("The above snapshoot of NFP's achivement on one ACBL Tournament" referring to the August 22 game), I am willing to do this work to post the 12 hands here to bolster your arguements. I just don't want to go the effort to post the hands if they will just sit here without explaination or if you would object for some reason for your hands to be published in this public forum (maybe they are part of the material you are selling, for instance).

Good luck with your system.

Ben

- I'm seling nothing, nor will sell in the future. If you decide to put the hands here, I'll find time to explain the Bidding, but do not forget, it is the Bidding for the light version of Fp. Although the Counting is the same, the opening and responding bids are obsolutely different from the original ForcePoint's version for computers and Experts. It is simply very easy natural Bidding for everyone, but because the Counting is very accurate, the results are still very good. That way I have told to anyone to implement the ForcePoint's Counting to the system s/he playing, without changing the opening and the responding bids. An example for SAYC using Fp's Counting may be found on http://bullbridge.com/generic46.html
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

#70 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-02, 17:34

Free, on Dec 1 2004, 09:26 AM, said:

Pavell, on Dec 1 2004, 02:43 PM, said:

- On the hand below, South opened 1 with B2+, any shape. The opps are pass. But that is not interesting for you. So try to reach 5 with your system:

6
KT976
QJT
6543

T94
A
AK98
AKT84

1 - 1NT
2 - 2NT
3 - 3
3 - 3
4 - 4
4 - 5
6

1 = 15+ any
1NT = semipositive, unbalanced with 5+
2NT = 5+, 4, short
3 = 1-5-3-4
3 = 3 SlamPoints
4 = 1/2 tophonours , 0 tophonours
5 = 1/2 tophonours , exactly 1 tophonour
South only relays

It depends on the mood if we bid slam or not, you need 2-2 split... We know partner holds the following:
x
Kxxxx
Qxx
xxxx

- The game is published by ACBL last December Bulletin, "Partnership Bridge" section. The original contract is 4 ?! For Fp it is simple Slam, which must be played, because the PL = 6 (North's B# = 0, South's B# = B5, with Super Fit), ad the Control Points (CP) = 33 (30 to 35 are for small Slam with PL >= 6, 36+ CP are for Grand, but with PL >= 7). That's the Counting. Everything else is the Bidding mechanism for exchanging the information.
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

#71 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2004-December-02, 18:10

Pavell, on Dec 2 2004, 06:40 PM, said:

- I'm seling nothing, nor will sell in the future.

I apologize for characterizing that you were selling something. I got this impression from a post by hrothgar above where he suggested you had a series of products based on this system. My bad.

Quote

If you decide to put the hands here, I'll find time to explain the Bidding, but do not forget, it is the Bidding for the light version of Fp.


Ok.. .especially now that it is clear you are not selling anything, and you have no objections, and you are willing to explain you bidding, I will go to the trouble of drudging up the hands and posting them so we can see (light version) of Fp in action.

Ben
--Ben--

#72 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-02, 19:30

tysen2k, on Dec 1 2004, 01:44 PM, said:

6
KT976
QJT
6543

T94
A
AK98
AKT84

Pavell, please indulge us with two examples.  Please show us how these 2 hands bid when South opens 1 and West overcalls 3.

Now do the same for these 2 hands (which I assume is still a 1 opening):

6
KT976
QJT
6543

T94
A
K842
AT852

- In both cases South will open 1 (B2+, any shape). North's B# = 0 (3+4+2-2=7 pts. B#=7/4-2=0) and the after 3 from West, North will bid Pass, which will show B(0) or less, any shape (if the opps bid is weak, with B1, North will bid X, with B2+, s/he will show the Basic suit).
- With South's B# = 5 (-2+9+10+10 = 27 pts. B#=27/4-2 =5) the bid of X will follow, which will ask for CP by the asking which the light Fp version uses (A=6 CP, K= 4 CP, but Singletons = Voids = 2 CP). It is useful when you do not have enough Bidding space or you do not need to discover the exact partner's shape):
- 1st step answer = 4 CP or less (the assumption is with B(-1)
- 2nd step = 6 CP (the assumption is with B(0)
- 3rd step = 8 CP (the assumption is with B1) and so on...
With a King and a Singleton = 6 CP, the response will be 4
- What South knows now: the PL = 5 and CP 32, so s/he will continue with the Relay of 4 for the 5 card suit, then for the 4 card suit, all natural.

South - West - North - East
1 (B2+, any shape)- 3 - Pass (B(0) or less) - Pass
X (Relay for CP) - Pass - 4 (6 CP) - Pass
4 - Pass - 4 (2 or 5 card Basic suit, length preference) - Pass
4 - Pass - 5 (4 card suit) - Pass
6 (if partner's 4 card suit was , we would play 5, but now with 32 CP and PL = 6, because of the SuperFit, I must go to 6)

- The 2nd game with South's B# = 2 (-2+9+4+6 = 17 pts. B#=17/4-2 = 2) South will bid Pass, because the PL =< 2, and even with a Super Fit , it can not go over 3.
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

#73 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,724
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2004-December-03, 08:44

Pavell, on Dec 3 2004, 01:40 AM, said:

I'm seling nothing, nor will sell in the future.

I APOLOGIZE

Somehow the following website lead me to beleive that you had a commercial product available

http://www.regnow.com/softsell/nph-softsel...040&item=8790-3

Or, maybe it was

http://www.bullbridg.../generic28.html

or maybe it was you "Money for Bidding" scheme

I don't know HOW I could have ever made such a mistake...
Alderaan delenda est
0

#74 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-03, 10:33

hrothgar, on Dec 3 2004, 09:44 AM, said:

Pavell, on Dec 3 2004, 01:40 AM, said:

I'm seling nothing, nor will sell in the future.

I APOLOGIZE

Somehow the following website lead me to beleive that you had a commercial product available

http://www.regnow.com/softsell/nph-softsel...040&item=8790-3

Or, maybe it was

http://www.bullbridg.../generic28.html

or maybe it was you "Money for Bidding" scheme

I don't know HOW I could have ever made such a mistake...

- You didn't made a mistake. The options are still available by the time I thought I'll be able to finish ForcePoint's source code complitely. Now I think, that this maybe never will happen (the program offer only the Counting and manual playing and anyone can download its free Demo), but I still can not find time to correct the site. But who knows, maybe Zar will find time and start the corrections. Or maybe GIB some day will decide to use my Counting/Bidding and with ots exellent playing module to go against JACK (for the last 3 years GIB even didn't appear on World Computer Championship in Canada, because JACK easy overpower their Bidding). Because of the unique Counting/Bidding, by my opinion, ForcePoint maybe will be able to overpower some of the participants even with the old free playing file gib.exe, but I do not have the resources to finish the job.
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

#75 User is offline   tysen2k 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 406
  • Joined: 2004-March-25

Posted 2004-December-03, 12:31

Pavell, on Dec 2 2004, 08:30 PM, said:

With a King and a Singleton = 6 CP, the response will be 4
- What South knows now: the PL = 5 and CP 32, so s/he will continue with the  Relay of 4 for the 5 card suit, then for the 4 card suit, all natural.

South - West - North - East
1 (B2+, any shape)- 3 - Pass (B(0) or less) - Pass
X (Relay for CP) - Pass - 4 (6 CP) - Pass
4 - Pass - 4 (2 or 5 card Basic suit, length preference) - Pass
4 - Pass - 5 (4 card suit) - Pass
6 (if partner's 4 card suit was , we would play 5, but now with 32 CP and PL = 6, because of the SuperFit, I must go to 6)

Okay, so you're at 4 with neither partner having shown shape information. Good thing you were able to stumble into a club fit.

So if responder had 6 hearts and no other 4-card suit I assume he would bid 5 over the 4 relay?
A bit of blatant self-pimping - I've got a new poker book that's getting good reviews.
0

#76 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2004-December-03, 22:17

Pavell, on Dec 2 2004, 06:40 PM, said:

- I'm seling nothing, nor will sell in the future. If you decide to put the hands here, I'll find time to explain the Bidding, but do not forget, it is the Bidding for the light version of Fp. Although the Counting is the same, the opening and responding bids are obsolutely different from the original ForcePoint's version for computers and Experts. It is simply very easy natural Bidding for everyone, but because the Counting is very accurate, the results are still very good.

Ok, I accept the challenge (in part because i found multiple pages where you are in fact trying to sell this thing), and pulled up the hands to see if the "counting is very accurate". There is little doubt that one touney you list was "very good".

ACBL #63 won by Pavell and his partner NellBB. When played, Pavell was WEST, I have rotated all the hands so Pavell always sits in the SOUTH seat. I have removed all other player names.

Here are the 12 hand from ACBL #63 from august 22 that is touted on the webpage by Pavell that if you played forcepoint you could have results like these. This event was a huge win for the forcepoint pair. The question was, did Forcepoint have anything to do with the victory? To be fair to Forcepoint, Pavell has already said that this was a light version of the full system, but it was “very accurate”. I assume he will explain the bidding, and defend the actions for these 12 hands. But to get it started, I added the results table for each board, and give my views of the auction/result for each of the 12 hands. I will summarize my view as saying Fp had nothing to do with the victory, and in fact, the bidding deserved a much worse result that actually achieved. BTW, I used a commercial product made by a third party to generate these results called BridgeBrowser.
Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1    Pass  1
 Pass  4    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5    Pass  6
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Six spades is cold. To make six spades, WEST has to have 1, 2, or 3 hearts to at least one of the top two cards in that suit, and you must not lose a spade (to four or five to the jack with WEST for instance). The odds of finding hearts ok is only 19% or so. Still, the slam is cold. A success? I guess so. The results on this hand was….

#    Contr          Ld     Decl T     r     Score     Pts
1     6S     N     HA     ===========     11     -50     -11.04
2     2H     S     S9     ===========     8     110     -8.35
3     4S     N     HA     ===========     11     450     -0.74
4     4S     N     C4     ===========     11     450     -0.74
5     4S     N     HA     ===========     11     450     -0.74
6     4S     N     HA     ===========     11     450     -0.74
7     4S     N     S6     ===========     11     450     -0.74
8     4S     N     C4     ===========     11     450     -0.74
9     4S     N     C4     ===========     11     450     -0.74
10     4S     N     C4     ===========     11     450     -0.74
11     3N     N     H4     ===========     11     460     -0.74
12     3N     N     S6     ===========     11     460     -0.74
13     3N     N     H4     ===========     11     460     -0.74
14     3N     S     H6     ===========     11     460     -0.74
15     3N     N     H4     ===========     11     460     -0.74
16     4S     N     D8     ===========     12     480     0.13
17     4S     N     C4     ===========     12     480     0.13
18     4S     N     S6     ===========     12     480     0.13
19     4S     N     C4     ===========     12     480     0.13
20     3N     N     H4     ===========     12     490     0.26
21     3N     N     H4     ===========     12     490     0.26
22     2HX     E     C6     ===========     4     800     7.17
23     6S     N     HA     ===========     12     980     10.39
24     6S     S     S3     Pavell     12     980     10.39           

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1    Pass  1
 Pass  4    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5    Pass  6
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Four spades is not a very good contract. It has to lose 2H, 2D, 1C, for down two. Even bad defense should hold it to minus one. Getting to 4S on this hand doesn’t seem like it should be the victory it was. Still. Pavell- NellBB are up 17.48 imps after just two boards. In theory, this 4 contract should be two away, to reduce the imp score to +4.29 (this poor defense was a huge swing of 12.79

#     Contr          Ld     Decl T     r     Score     Pts
1     4S     S     S5     ===========     8     -100     -5.7
2     4S     S     C2     ===========     8     -100     -5.7
3     4S     S     S5     ===========     8     -100     -5.7
4     4S     S     C9     ===========     9     -50     -4.39
5     4S     S     S6     ===========     9     -50     -4.39
6     4S     S     HA     ===========     9     -50     -4.39
7     1N     N     D5     ===========     7     90     -0.96
8     2S     S     C9     ===========     8     110     -0.43
9     2S     S     S6     ===========     8     110     -0.43
10     2S     S     DK     ===========     8     110     -0.43
11     3S     S     DK     ===========     9     140     0.48
12     3S     S     S6     ===========     9     140     0.48
13     2S     S     HA     ===========     9     140     0.48
14     3S     S     S5     ===========     9     140     0.48
15     1N     N     D4     ===========     9     150     0.48
16     3S     S     HA     ===========     10     170     1.48
17     2S     S     HA     ===========     10     170     1.48
18     3S     S     HA     ===========     10     170     1.48
19     2S     S     S6     ===========     10     170     1.48
20     2S     S     HA     ===========     10     170     1.48
21     2S     S     CJ     ===========     10     170     1.48
22     4S     S     HA     ===========     10     420     7.09
23     4S     S     S5     ===========     10     420     7.09
24     4S     S     S5     Pavell     10     420     7.09  

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1    Pass  1
 Pass  4    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5    Pass  6
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Ok. Here Pavell’s bidding is good. EW can make 3 (6+1+2), so down one in 3 (if no double since NS are vul) is about even result. The defense was weak. West got off to the club lead, and seeing dummy, should visualize cash two clubs, get to partner with the diamond ace, ruff a club. This defense sets 3 one for a push board at imps. The defense, however slipped when WEST switched at trick two. Still. Pavell- NellBB are up 21.35 imps after just three boards. The poor defense here by EW was a swing of 5.87 imps. With reasonable defense Pavell-NellBB would be at minus -1.18 imps.

(I forgot to put the results here, sorry)

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1    Pass  1
 Pass  4    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5    Pass  6
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


This is not exactly a bidding victory for ForcePoint. 4 is a horrible contract. It has to lose a spade (at least) regardless how the suit splits, and possible two. A heart loser is a good bet, a diamond loser for sure. And great chances for two club losers. It takes a very aggressive club lead from WEST to let it make. and even then, you have to ignore restricted choice and drop QJ of hearts doubleton offside. No denying it, after the defense let this make, Pavell-NellBB have a tremendous score of + 30.78 imps after four boards. Of course, here was another huge swing caused by the poor defense. Setting 4 just one (and two is possible on restricted choice), this would be a swing of 14.65 against the Fp pair, and their imps (with average defense on boards 2,3, and 4 would be -15.83 instead of +31. Here are the results.

#     Contr          Ld     Decl T     r     Score     Pts
1     3S     N     HQ     ===========     7     -200     -7.48
2     3H     N     CT     ===========     8     -100     -5.22
3     3N     N     D9     ===========     8     -100     -5.22
4     4H     N     CT     ===========     9     -100     -5.22
5     3S     N     HQ     ===========     8     -100     -5.22
6     3S     N     HQ     ===========     8     -100     -5.22
7     4S     N     DA     ===========     9     -100     -5.22
8     4H     N     ST     ===========     9     -100     -5.22
9     3S     N     HQ     ===========     9     140     0.3
10     3S     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
11     3H     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
12     2S     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
13     3H     N     ST     ===========     9     140     0.3
14     3S     N     HQ     ===========     9     140     0.3
15     3S     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
16     3S     N     HQ     ===========     9     140     0.3
17     3H     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
18     3H     N     DJ     ===========     10     170     1.17
19     3H     N     CT     ===========     10     170     1.17
20     3H     N     CT     ===========     10     170     1.17
21     4S     N     DA     ===========     10     620     9.43
22     4H     N     C4     ===========     10     620     9.43
23     4H     N     ST     ===========     10     620     9.43
24     4S     S     CK     Pavell     10     620     9.43

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1    Pass  1
 Pass  4    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5    Pass  6
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Ok.. here there is a play for 6. It can even make on the current layout, and yet no sniff of squeeze. I am happy however with the four spade contract, and let the +1.59 imp stand as an example of good bridge. Pavell pair up 32.37 imps, and with average defense on earlier hands, would be minus 14.24
#     Contr          Ld     Decl     Tr     Score     Pts
1     4S     N     CK     ===========     9     -50     -9.77
2     2H     W     C3     ===========     0     0     0
3     1S     N     CK     ===========     9     140     -5.73
4     2S     N     D2     ===========     11     200     -4.45
5     3S     N     CK     ===========     11     200     -4.45
6     2S     N     CK     ===========     11     200     -4.45
7     2S     N     CK     ===========     11     200     -4.45
8     3S     N     CK     ===========     12     230     -4.05
9     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
10     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
11     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
12     4S     N     D5     ===========     11     450     1.59
13     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
14     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
15     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
16     4S     N     D5     ===========     11     450     1.59
17     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
18     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
19     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
20     4S     S     C3     Pavell     11     450     1.59
21     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
22     4S     N     D5     ===========     12     480     2.5
23     4S     N     CK     ===========     12     480     2.5
24     6S     S     S5     ===========     12     980     11.68

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1    Pass  1
 Pass  4    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5    Pass  6
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Yuck. A five diamond sacrifice vulnerable versus not vul. This could be a total disaster. Very easy defense can get this down three (2, 1, 1 ruff, king of club), for -800 for Pavell-NellBB pair. That would be huge imp disaster. The defense went, let’s just say, horribly wrong, and beat it only one. So Pavell picked up 5.61 imps, for an astounding 37.98 imps. But if the defense just beat this two, which is clearly easy, this is a swing of 9.44 imps (it could be a much much larger swing of around 17 imps…. This is not impressive.
#     Contr          Ld     Decl T     r     Score     Pts
1     4SX     E     C7     ===========     11     -690     -7.65
2     4SX     E     DA     ===========     11     -690     -7.65
3     5CX     N     DJ     ===========     9     -500     -3.83
4     4S     E     DA     ===========     11     -450     -2.35
5     5S     E     DA     ===========     11     -450     -2.35
6     4S     E     DA     ===========     11     -450     -2.35
7     4S     E     DK     ===========     11     -450     -2.35
8     4S [space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
9[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
10[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
11[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
12[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
13[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-1.65
14[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-1.65
15[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-1.65
16[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-1.65
17[space][space][space][space][space]5C[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]DJ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-0.83
18[space][space][space][space][space]5CX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]3.48
19[space][space][space][space][space]5CX[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]DJ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]3.48
20[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]3.48
21[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]SA[space][space][space][space][space]NellBB[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]5.61
22[space][space][space][space][space]5SX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]9
23[space][space][space][space][space]6SX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]9
24[space][space][space][space][space]5C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]600[space][space][space][space][space]13.65[space][space]

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1
[space]Pass[space][space]4[space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


Another less than great contract. To be fair to ForcePoint the field bid 3NT and made it. But the defense to set 3NT is easy. On the heart queen lead and duck in dummy (which is what happens here), East only need to win the ace and return it. Declarer will probably go down two (hoping EAST has club ace) rather than give up down one when diamonds turn out to be 5-1. Still, we will figure best defense is down one… so instead of the +5.39 imps Forcepoint picks up here, it should lose 7.1, yet another game swing value of +12.48. So Pavell-Neibb increase their lead to +43.37, but could easily with normal defense be minus 36.16. Here are the results.
#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl T[space][space][space][space][space]r[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]2HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]n9[space][space][space][space][space]-870[space][space][space][space][space]-15.04
2[space][space][space][space][space]2HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-670[space][space][space][space][space]-13.48
3[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]HQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]-300[space][space][space][space][space]-9.74
4[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]HQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]-8.3
5[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]S5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]-8.3
6[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-140[space][space][space][space][space]-7.78
7[space][space][space][space][space]1H[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-7.09
8[space][space][space][space][space]4H[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]-4.65
9[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
10[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
11[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]o8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
12[space][space][space][space][space]4SX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
13[space][space][space][space][space]5C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]HA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]600[space][space][space][space][space]4.57
14[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
15[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D7[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
16[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
17[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
18[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
19[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
20[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
21[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
22[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]HQ[space][space][space][space][space]NellBB[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
23[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]660[space][space][space][space][space]5.96
24[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]660[space][space][space][space][space]5.96



Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


Five clubs is yet another overbid for ForcePoint. Guess we are all surprised with the defense couldn’t find a way to allow this to make. Finally a minus imp score for the Forcepoint pair (lose 3.43 imps) for a total of +39.94. This is an interesting score, because with just normal defense on the game hands from above, this 3 imp lose here would mean the forcepoint score could be -39.59 imps.

#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl T[space][space][space][space][space]r[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]C2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-130[space][space][space][space][space]-5.3
2[space][space][space][space][space]2D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-90[space][space][space][space][space]-4.48
3[space][space][space][space][space]2H[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]-50[space][space][space][space][space]-3.43
4[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-50[space][space][space][space][space]-3.43
5[space][space][space][space][space]5C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]C4[space][space][space][space][space]Pavell[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-50[space][space][space][space][space]-3.43
6[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
7[space][space][space][space][space]4D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
8[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
9[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
10[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
11[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
12[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]C2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
13[space][space][space][space][space]4D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]C2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]0.96
14[space][space][space][space][space]3DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]C2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]0.96
15[space][space][space][space][space]4C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
16[space][space][space][space][space]3C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]HQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
17[space][space][space][space][space]4C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]SJ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
18[space][space][space][space][space]4C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
19[space][space][space][space][space]4C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
20[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]C8[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]2.04
21[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]DK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]2.04
22[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]2.04
23[space][space][space][space][space]4H[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]CK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]150[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
24[space][space][space][space][space]4DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]300[space][space][space][space][space]5.91



Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]

Ok Pavell’s opponents found their 4-2 heart fit AFTER they found a diamond fit. This time Pavell deserved to be lucky. I wonder how the bidding would have gone if West had rebid 3D instead of 3H. We may never know. 3H down two was a nice pickup for Pavell- NellBB of 1.65 imps for +41.59 imps (could be -37.94. Here are the results.

#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl T[space][space][space][space][space]r[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]4SX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]-800[space][space][space][space][space]-14.04
2[space][space][space][space][space]5S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]-7.09
3[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-5.26
4[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-5.13
5[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-5.13
6[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-5.13
7[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-2.17
8[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]-0.7
9[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]-0.7
10[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]110[space][space][space][space][space]-0.65
11[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]110[space][space][space][space][space]-0.65
12[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]110[space][space][space][space][space]-0.65
13[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
14[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
15[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
16[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
17[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
18[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
19[space][space][space][space][space]3H[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space](your opp)[space][space][space][space][space]5[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]1.65
20[space][space][space][space][space]4DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]300[space][space][space][space][space]3.65
21[space][space][space][space][space]5DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]7.48
22[space][space][space][space][space]3SX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]29[space][space][space][space][space]730[space][space][space][space][space]10.7
23[space][space][space][space][space]3SX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D9[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]730[space][space][space][space][space]10.7
24[space][space][space][space][space]5DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]800[space][space][space][space][space]11.57[space] [/font]
Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


1 is probably as good as any for you. The defense let you make (good defense can hold you to 3, 1, 1 and 1[sp], and EW could have balanced and played 2 or 3 spades. But this might be a plus of forcepoint. EW might pass 1 hoping it would be better for them than bidding on. This raises the score to +43.94 (it could be -35.59)

#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl[space][space][space][space][space]Tr[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-150[space][space][space][space][space]-3.48
2[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]HA[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-140[space][space][space][space][space]-3.3
3[space][space][space][space][space]1S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]H2[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-140[space][space][space][space][space]-3.3
4[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C9[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-120[space][space][space][space][space]-2.61
5[space][space][space][space][space]1N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-120[space][space][space][space][space]-2.61
6[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
7[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
8[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]D5[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
9[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
10[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
11[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
12[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DJ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
13[space][space][space][space][space]1N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-2.26
14[space][space][space][space][space]1C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]70[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
15[space][space][space][space][space]1D[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D2[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]70[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
16[space][space][space][space][space]1C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D2[space][space][space][space][space]Pavell[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]70[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
17[space][space][space][space][space]1D[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]S2[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]90[space][space][space][space][space]2.87
18[space][space][space][space][space]1N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]90[space][space][space][space][space]2.87
19[space][space][space][space][space]1D[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]C5[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]90[space][space][space][space][space]2.87
20[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]3
21[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]3
22[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]D5[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]3
23[space][space][space][space][space]1DX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]4.09
24[space][space][space][space][space]3CX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]H2[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]5.57

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


EW bid their game, and cost 40.03 (could be minus 39.5). Here are the results of board 11.

#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl[space][space][space][space][space]Tr[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]5DX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-550[space][space][space][space][space]-7.39
2[space][space][space][space][space]5HX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-500[space][space][space][space][space]-6.17
3[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C7[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]12[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-4.61
4[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]12[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-4.61
5[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]12[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-4.61
6[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
7[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
8[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H7[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
9[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
10[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
11[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]ST[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
12[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]ST[space][space][space][space][space]wascana[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
13[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
14[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]48[space][space][space][space][space]-300[space][space][space][space][space]-1.57
15[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-150[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
16[space][space][space][space][space]4D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]ST[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-150[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
17[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-150[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
18[space][space][space][space][space]3H[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]28[space][space][space][space][space]-50[space][space][space][space][space]3.65
19[space][space][space][space][space]6D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]5.57
20[space][space][space][space][space]6D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]5.57
21[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]HA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]5.57
22[space][space][space][space][space]4H[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]H4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]420[space][space][space][space][space]10.57
23[space][space][space][space][space]4SX[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]DK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]590[space][space][space][space][space]12.26
24[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]H4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]590[space][space][space][space][space]12.26[space]

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


This is another hand the opponents controlled, and they went down an extra trick, but ok.. another +3.91 imps for Pavell, but with average defense on the overbid hands, could easily be minus 35.59.

#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl[space][space][space][space][space]Tr[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]D9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-630[space][space][space][space][space]-11.61
2[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-600[space][space][space][space][space]-11.43
3[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-170[space][space][space][space][space]-5.43
4[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]D9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-120[space][space][space][space][space]-4.3
5[space][space][space][space][space]3C[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-3.52
6[space][space][space][space][space]1NX[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]CQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-3.43
7[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
8[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
9[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
10[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]HT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
11[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
12[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
13[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
14[space][space][space][space][space]2C[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
15[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]H3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
16[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D7[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
17[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]SA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
18[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
19[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
20[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D8[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
21[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
22[space][space][space][space][space]3C[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]wascana[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
23[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
24[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]H6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]300[space][space][space][space][space]6.09


A winning 42 imp score, but could be a next to last place -36 imps, and this doesn't even count the fact that board one slam was less than 20% chance of success. The Forcepoint page holds this tournment result as "(A) snapshoot of NFP's achivement on one ACBL Tournament." I wondered how the result was achieved after a short study of the "method".
--Ben--

#77 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2004-December-04, 15:07

Ouch, that was a painful read!!!

I guess that's the end of 18 years of intense study. :blink:
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#78 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2004-December-04, 15:42

Hannie, on Dec 4 2004, 05:07 PM, said:

Ouch, that was a painful read!!!

I guess that's the end of 18 years of intense study. :blink:

Well to be fair, this was only 12 hands, and this was forcepoint light, or sayc or something. Also, even the greatest partnerships have bad sessions from time to time...and after all, they did win this event. But then, this contracts reached do not convince me this is working.
--Ben--

#79 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-04, 16:06

Hannie, on Dec 4 2004, 04:07 PM, said:

Ouch, that was a painful read!!!

I guess that's the end of 18 years of intense study. :blink:

- I'm surprised, too
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

#80 User is offline   Pavell 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 2004-September-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, Long Island City, Sunnyside
  • Interests:The Slam Theory of auto Hand Evaluation and Bridge Bidding

Posted 2004-December-04, 17:35

[quote name='inquiry' date='Dec 3 2004, 11:17 PM'] [quote name='Pavell' date='Dec 2 2004, 06:40 PM']- I'm seling nothing, nor will sell in the future. If you decide to put the hands here, I'll find time to explain the Bidding, but do not forget, it is the Bidding for the light version of Fp. Although the Counting is the same, the opening and responding bids are obsolutely different from the original ForcePoint's version for computers and Experts. It is simply very easy natural Bidding for everyone, but because the Counting is very accurate, the results are still very good. [/QUOTE]
Ok, I accept the challenge (in part because i found multiple pages where you are in fact trying to sell this thing), and pulled up the hands to see if the "counting is very accurate". There is little doubt that one touney you list was "very good".

ACBL #63 won by Pavell and his partner NellBB. When played, Pavell was WEST, I have rotated all the hands so Pavell always sits in the SOUTH seat. I have removed all other player names.

Here are the 12 hand from ACBL #63 from august 22 that is touted on the webpage by Pavell that if you played forcepoint you could have results like these. This event was a huge win for the forcepoint pair. The question was, did Forcepoint have anything to do with the victory? To be fair to Forcepoint, Pavell has already said that this was a light version of the full system, but it was “very accurate”. I assume he will explain the bidding, and defend the actions for these 12 hands. But to get it started, I added the results table for each board, and give my views of the auction/result for each of the 12 hands. I will summarize my view as saying Fp had nothing to do with the victory, and in fact, the bidding deserved a much worse result that actually achieved. BTW, I used a commercial product made by a third party to generate these results called BridgeBrowser.
Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1[cl]    Pass  1[sp]
 Pass  4[sp]    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5[sp]    Pass  6[sp]
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Six spades is cold. To make six spades, WEST has to have 1, 2, or 3 hearts to at least one of the top two cards in that suit, and you must not lose a spade (to four or five to the jack with WEST for instance). The odds of finding hearts ok is only 19% or so. Still, the slam is cold. A success? I guess so.

*************
- Mamma mia, I never expected that this can be intersting to someone. I even didn't keep track of this Tournament. Of course, I will fulfill my promise to explain the bids of the light version of ForcePoint NFP (Nell's ForcePoint), designed especially for my partner Nell 5 months ago for fun.
- Anyone can find it on [url="http://bullbridge.com/generic44.html"]http://bullbridge.com/generic44.html[/url]
Note:
The original version is here on the BBO Forum and also on: [url="http://bullbridge.com/generic45.html"]http://bullbridge.com/generic45.html[/url]
The SAYC version using ForcePoint's Counting (C-SAYC) is on: [url="http://bullbridge.com/generic46.html"]http://bullbridge.com/generic46.html[/url]

- For all those who do not know the Counting (the Rule of 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1):
A = 6 pts, Void = 5 pts, K= 4 pts, Singleton = 3 pts, Q = 2 pts, J = 1 pt
NOTE: Singleton A=9 pts, any other Singleton despite of its Honor value = 3 pts
- Negative pts: for any 3, 4, 5 cards suits ONLY, without any Control, but with Honor (Q or J) = -1 pt. I f you do not have any Honor(s) at all: -2 pts
- The sum of all pts are your Total (T) pts
- Your Base number B# = T/4 - 2
- Your Play Level (PL) = sum of both partners B#
Play Level Adjustments:
PL = PL + 1 for a Trump Super Fit (9+ cards) or for a 2nd side Fit
PL = PL - 1 for Trump Misfit

- Control Points (CP):
A = 6 CP, Singleton Ace = 8 CP , King = 4 CP, Void = Singleton = 2 CP (any other Singletons despite their Honor's value = 2 CP)

- Slams' requirements:
Small Slam: PL >= 6, CP =32-34
Grand Slam: PL >= 7, CP = 36+

- How to find your partner's B#:
- If your partner bid a new suit, his/her minimum B# = Level s/he bid - 1
- If your partner fit your suit on the minimum Level, his/her minimum B# = Level s/he bid - 2, but if s/he fit your suit on upper Level, you do not need to think about her/him B#, because the Level s/he bid shows directly to you the PL by her/him vision (s/he already added your expected B# by the bids you made to her/him B# and adjusted the PL, if necessary)
NOTE: To understand the NFP Bidding, you have to read for the opening and the responding bids on [url="http://bullbridge.com/generic44.html"]http://bullbridge.com/generic44.html[/url] . Of course, I will explain any particular bid here for your convinience.

A GENERAL NOTE: NFP was banned from BBO ACBL because of its 3 opening bids:
- 1[cl] = 10+ HCP, no 5 card suit, alerted
- 1NT = 10+ HCP, any bi-color, alerted
- 2[di] = 10+ HCP, unbalanced (with Void), alerted
- Although in the General Convention Chart (GCC) which ACBL use, there is nothing spesifically written to forbid this 3 opening bids, Fred Gitelman personally asked me not to use NFP on ACBL. On my contestation to the Central Headquaters of ACBL in US, the answer was, approximately: " ACBL nor approve, nor ban the use of this new system on ACBL Tournaments. The BBO ACBL has its own rights to decide what to do", so what I did: I assured Fred, that we won't use NFP anymore on ACBL Tournaments (and we never used it anymore), and for 2 days I have created the C-SAYC ( Counted SAYC, and published it on: [url="http://bullbridge.com/generic46.html"]http://bullbridge.com/generic46.html[/url] ), which use the usual SAYC bids, but implement the ForcePoint's Counting. It is not too strong like NFP, but if you are discipline bidder, you will know very well when to play 3 in Majors instead of 4, not to mention the Slam games, where the Fp Counting will help you much. I'm still not agree, that NFP didn't apply the requirements by the ACBL GCC, but I do not own the BBO. We also never used the original ForcePoint on ACBL, because its bids are true if conflict with the ACBL GCC requirements. So, long live C-SAYC, it is elementary to apply the Counting, even if your partner do not know for it at all !

- Let me start with the NFP's 12 games bids explanations (I will put them inside this rows) :
************
My comments here...
************
1st game: Although the guy said on the end of this investigation: "... board one slam was less than 20% chance of success", for any version of ForcePoint it is 100% Slam (PL =6, CP = 32). On the start the guy said: " Six spades is cold". I would say: Six spades is cool ! Obviously opposite opinions. Any way, Fp Counting showed that you MUST play it !

South has 6+2+6+6=20 pts, and B#= 20/4 - 2= B3
North has 6+3+4+7=20 pts, and B# =20/4 - 2 = B3
PL = B3+B3 = 6

1[cl] (B2+, no 5 card suit) - 1[sp] (B(0)+, 5 or 6 card suit)
4[sp] [ Signoff invitation from Nell with B3+B(0)+ ] - 4NT [Control Points (CP) Asking, I had not B(0), but B3, so the PL >= 6]
5[sp] (12 CP (by steps, the 1st step = 6 CP, any next add 2 CP) - 6[sp].

NOTE: Nell answered wrong. She has 14 CP and must answer 5NT. She simply forgot that after 4NT the 1st step answer starts from 6 CP, not from 8 CP how it is after 4[cl]. Because it was new for her ( I have changed it short before the Tournament), I suspected that she answerd starting from 8 CP and went to Slam with 14+18=32 CP and PL >= 6

*****************
The results on this hand was….

#    Contr          Ld     Decl T     r     Score     Pts
1     6S     N     HA     ===========     11     -50     -11.04
2     2H     S     S9     ===========     8     110     -8.35
3     4S     N     HA     ===========     11     450     -0.74
4     4S     N     C4     ===========     11     450     -0.74
5     4S     N     HA     ===========     11     450     -0.74
6     4S     N     HA     ===========     11     450     -0.74
7     4S     N     S6     ===========     11     450     -0.74
8     4S     N     C4     ===========     11     450     -0.74
9     4S     N     C4     ===========     11     450     -0.74
10     4S     N     C4     ===========     11     450     -0.74
11     3N     N     H4     ===========     11     460     -0.74
12     3N     N     S6     ===========     11     460     -0.74
13     3N     N     H4     ===========     11     460     -0.74
14     3N     S     H6     ===========     11     460     -0.74
15     3N     N     H4     ===========     11     460     -0.74
16     4S     N     D8     ===========     12     480     0.13
17     4S     N     C4     ===========     12     480     0.13
18     4S     N     S6     ===========     12     480     0.13
19     4S     N     C4     ===========     12     480     0.13
20     3N     N     H4     ===========     12     490     0.26
21     3N     N     H4     ===========     12     490     0.26
22     2HX     E     C6     ===========     4     800     7.17
23     6S     N     HA     ===========     12     980     10.39
24     6S     S     S3     Pavell     12     980     10.39           


Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1[cl]    Pass  1[sp]
 Pass  4[sp]    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5[sp]    Pass  6[sp]
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Four spades is not a very good contract. It has to lose 2H, 2D, 1C, for down two. Even bad defense should hold it to minus one. Getting to 4S on this hand doesn’t seem like it should be the victory it was. Still. Pavell- NellBB are up 17.48 imps after just two boards. In theory, this 4[sp] contract should be two away, to reduce the imp score to +4.29 (this poor defense was a huge swing of 12.79

*****************
2nd game:
North has 2+2-2+6 = 8 pts. B# = 8/4-2 = B(0)
South has 10+0+6+1 = 17 pts. B# = 17/4-2 = B2
PL = B(0)+B2 = 2

North - South
Pass (less than B1 with 5 card Major suit or bi-color, and less than B2 with any other shape) - 1[sp] (B1 to B4, 5 card suit)
2[sp] (Nell showed min of B(0) because she simply fit the suit with 3+ cards) - 3[sp] ( I showed B2 on 3rd level, although I had to pass, because Nell would fit me on upper level, if her B# was higher. If you ask me now why I did this, I simply can not explain it ! Usually I'm not aggressive bidder)
4[sp] (for my surprise Nell bid 1 more time in the same suit. She is a very aggressive bidder, although I'm trying to calm her, but the guilty was I, because I bid 3[sp]).

- By the way, if your PL = 1, statistically you have almost 90% chance to make 2, because of the finesse options, if your PL = 2, you have 60% chance to make 3, if your PL = 3, you have 30% chance to make 4, if your PL = 4, you have 10% chance to make 5 (that why we prefer to play 4 in Minors with PL = 4), if your PL = 5, you have 20% chance to make 6, if your PL = 6, you have 30% chance to make 7.

NOTE: Of course, the opps defense was very weak, but we had nothing to do except to use their mistakes. We had to go 2 down by Fp Counting !

******************
The results on this hand was….
#     Contr          Ld     Decl T     r     Score     Pts
1     4S     S     S5     ===========     8     -100     -5.7
2     4S     S     C2     ===========     8     -100     -5.7
3     4S     S     S5     ===========     8     -100     -5.7
4     4S     S     C9     ===========     9     -50     -4.39
5     4S     S     S6     ===========     9     -50     -4.39
6     4S     S     HA     ===========     9     -50     -4.39
7     1N     N     D5     ===========     7     90     -0.96
8     2S     S     C9     ===========     8     110     -0.43
9     2S     S     S6     ===========     8     110     -0.43
10     2S     S     DK     ===========     8     110     -0.43
11     3S     S     DK     ===========     9     140     0.48
12     3S     S     S6     ===========     9     140     0.48
13     2S     S     HA     ===========     9     140     0.48
14     3S     S     S5     ===========     9     140     0.48
15     1N     N     D4     ===========     9     150     0.48
16     3S     S     HA     ===========     10     170     1.48
17     2S     S     HA     ===========     10     170     1.48
18     3S     S     HA     ===========     10     170     1.48
19     2S     S     S6     ===========     10     170     1.48
20     2S     S     HA     ===========     10     170     1.48
21     2S     S     CJ     ===========     10     170     1.48
22     4S     S     HA     ===========     10     420     7.09
23     4S     S     S5     ===========     10     420     7.09
24     4S     S     S5     Pavell     10     420     7.09  


Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1[cl]    Pass  1[sp]
 Pass  4[sp]    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5[sp]    Pass  6[sp]
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Ok. Here Pavell’s bidding is good. EW can make 3[di] (6[di]+1[he]+2[cl]), so down one in 3[he] (if no double since NS are vul) is about even result. The defense was weak. West got off to the club lead, and seeing dummy, should visualize cash two clubs, get to partner with the diamond ace, ruff a club. This defense sets 3[he] one for a push board at imps. The defense, however slipped when WEST switched at trick two. Still. Pavell- NellBB are up 21.35 imps after just three boards. The poor defense here by EW was a swing of 5.87 imps. With reasonable defense Pavell-NellBB would be at minus -1.18 imps.

***************
3rd game:
N has 10+6+1+1=18/4-2=B2
S has 2+2+3+0=7/4-2= B(0)
PL = B2+B(0)+1 (for Trump Super Fit) = 3

East - South - West - North
Pass - Pass - 1[di] - X (B2+, no 5 card suit)
1[sp] - 2[he] (obviously B(0), although the bid is on 2nd Level, because with B1 South would open 1[he]) - Pass -Pass (North would bid 3[he], because of CPC upgrade to B3 (CPC, Control Points Correction, do not ask for it, it is for inner circle only), but decide not to do that)
3[di] - 3[he] (with Singleton in opps suit and 6 card suit South decided to risk for 1 down) - All Passed

****************

(I forgot to put the results here, sorry)

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1[cl]    Pass  1[sp]
 Pass  4[sp]    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5[sp]    Pass  6[sp]
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


This is not exactly a bidding victory for ForcePoint. 4[sp] is a horrible contract. It has to lose a spade (at least) regardless how the suit splits, and possible two. A heart loser is a good bet, a diamond loser for sure. And great chances for two club losers. It takes a very aggressive club lead from WEST to let it make. and even then, you have to ignore restricted choice and drop QJ of hearts doubleton offside. No denying it, after the defense let this make, Pavell-NellBB have a tremendous score of + 30.78 imps after four boards. Of course, here was another huge swing caused by the poor defense. Setting 4[sp] just one (and two is possible on restricted choice), this would be a swing of 14.65 against the Fp pair, and their imps (with average defense on boards 2,3, and 4 would be -15.83 instead of +31. Here are the results.

****************
4th game:
N has 10+10+4+6=30/4-2 = B5, with CPC upgrade it goes to B6
S has 0-2+3+0=1/4-2 = B(-2)
PL = B6+B(-2) - 1 (for Trump Misfit) = 3

South - West - North - East
pass - pass - 2NT (B5+, balance) - pass
3[sp] (5 card suit, even with Negative Base after bids of 2NT or up you have to talk) - pass - 4[sp] (a try, my partner would have more) - All passed

****************
The results on this hand was….
#     Contr          Ld     Decl T     r     Score     Pts
1     3S     N     HQ     ===========     7     -200     -7.48
2     3H     N     CT     ===========     8     -100     -5.22
3     3N     N     D9     ===========     8     -100     -5.22
4     4H     N     CT     ===========     9     -100     -5.22
5     3S     N     HQ     ===========     8     -100     -5.22
6     3S     N     HQ     ===========     8     -100     -5.22
7     4S     N     DA     ===========     9     -100     -5.22
8     4H     N     ST     ===========     9     -100     -5.22
9     3S     N     HQ     ===========     9     140     0.3
10     3S     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
11     3H     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
12     2S     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
13     3H     N     ST     ===========     9     140     0.3
14     3S     N     HQ     ===========     9     140     0.3
15     3S     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
16     3S     N     HQ     ===========     9     140     0.3
17     3H     N     CT     ===========     9     140     0.3
18     3H     N     DJ     ===========     10     170     1.17
19     3H     N     CT     ===========     10     170     1.17
20     3H     N     CT     ===========     10     170     1.17
21     4S     N     DA     ===========     10     620     9.43
22     4H     N     C4     ===========     10     620     9.43
23     4H     N     ST     ===========     10     620     9.43
24     4S     S     CK     Pavell     10     620     9.43

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1[cl]    Pass  1[sp]
 Pass  4[sp]    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5[sp]    Pass  6[sp]
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Ok.. here there is a play for 6[sp]. It can even make on the current layout, and yet no sniff of squeeze. I am happy however with the four spade contract, and let the +1.59 imp stand as an example of good bridge. Pavell pair up 32.37 imps, and with average defense on earlier hands, would be minus 14.24

**************
5th game:
N has 6+3+7+9 = 25/4-2 = B4, with CPC upgrade = B5
S has 5+0+3-2 = 6/4-2 = B(-1), with CPC upgrade = B(0)
PL = B6+B(0) = 6

West - North - East - South
pass - 1NT (B1+, any bi-color) - pass - 2[sp] (B(0)+, 3+ card suit for eventualy Fitting)
pass - 4[sp] (Nell saw max of 5 and decided to bid safety, instead to ask for CP with 4[cl] bid. She could do that, but after my answer of 4[di] for 8 CP or less, she, with max of 22 + max 8 = 30 CP, will land on 4[sp]) - All passed

NOTE: I would upgrade my B# to B1, because of CPC, and bid 4NT for CP. This time we will land on 5[sp] because of 22+6=28 CP, but I do not like the use of CPC with a Singleton Control, so I passed, too.

**************
The results on this hand was….
#     Contr          Ld     Decl     Tr     Score     Pts
1     4S     N     CK     ===========     9     -50     -9.77
2     2H     W     C3     ===========     0     0     0
3     1S     N     CK     ===========     9     140     -5.73
4     2S     N     D2     ===========     11     200     -4.45
5     3S     N     CK     ===========     11     200     -4.45
6     2S     N     CK     ===========     11     200     -4.45
7     2S     N     CK     ===========     11     200     -4.45
8     3S     N     CK     ===========     12     230     -4.05
9     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
10     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
11     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
12     4S     N     D5     ===========     11     450     1.59
13     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
14     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
15     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
16     4S     N     D5     ===========     11     450     1.59
17     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
18     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
19     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
20     4S     S     C3     Pavell     11     450     1.59
21     4S     N     CK     ===========     11     450     1.59
22     4S     N     D5     ===========     12     480     2.5
23     4S     N     CK     ===========     12     480     2.5
24     6S     S     S5     ===========     12     980     11.68

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
 Pass  1[cl]    Pass  1[sp]
 Pass  4[sp]    Pass  4NT
 Pass  5[sp]    Pass  6[sp]
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


Yuck. A five diamond sacrifice vulnerable versus not vul. This could be a total disaster. Very easy defense can get this down three (2[he], 1[sp], 1[cl] ruff, king of club), for -800 for Pavell-NellBB pair. That would be huge imp disaster. The defense went, let’s just say, horribly wrong, and beat it only one. So Pavell picked up 5.61 imps, for an astounding 37.98 imps. But if the defense just beat this two, which is clearly easy, this is a swing of 9.44 imps (it could be a much much larger swing of around 17 imps…. This is not impressive.

*************
6th game:
N has 3+0+1+9=13/4-2 = B1
S has 4+4+10-2= 16/4-2 = B2
[cl]PL = B1+B2+1 (for [cl] Super Fit) + 1 (for [di] side Fit) = 5
[di]PL =B1+B2+1 (for [cl] side Fit) = 4

NOTE: The PL's method is statistically extracted. How the opps cards are, the [di] are better Trump suit. That why the ForcePoint Counting has not 100% accuracy, but 83+% only.

North - East - South - West
1[di] (a mistake opening by Nell which must be done with B2, 5+ cards. The right opening is 1NT with B1+, any bi-color) - 1[sp] - 4[di] (I had B2, so the PL for me was was 4) - 4[sp]
5[di] (sacrifise for 2 down by Nell. By the wrong opening we were prevented to discover the [cl] Super Fit) - All Passed

*************
The results on this hand was….
#     Contr          Ld     Decl T     r     Score     Pts
1     4SX     E     C7     ===========     11     -690     -7.65
2     4SX     E     DA     ===========     11     -690     -7.65
3     5CX     N     DJ     ===========     9     -500     -3.83
4     4S     E     DA     ===========     11     -450     -2.35
5     5S     E     DA     ===========     11     -450     -2.35
6     4S     E     DA     ===========     11     -450     -2.35
7     4S     E     DK     ===========     11     -450     -2.35
8     4S [space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
9[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
10[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
11[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
12[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-450[space][space][space][space][space]-2.35
13[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-1.65
14[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-1.65
15[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-1.65
16[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-1.65
17[space][space][space][space][space]5C[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]DJ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-0.83
18[space][space][space][space][space]5CX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]3.48
19[space][space][space][space][space]5CX[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]DJ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]3.48
20[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]3.48
21[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]SA[space][space][space][space][space]NellBB[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]5.61
22[space][space][space][space][space]5SX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]9
23[space][space][space][space][space]6SX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]9
24[space][space][space][space][space]5C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]600[space][space][space][space][space]13.65[space][space]

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[cl][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


Another less than great contract. To be fair to ForcePoint the field bid 3NT and made it. But the defense to set 3NT is easy. On the heart queen lead and duck in dummy (which is what happens here), East only need to win the ace and return it. Declarer will probably go down two (hoping EAST has club ace) rather than give up down one when diamonds turn out to be 5-1. Still, we will figure best defense is down one… so instead of the +5.39 imps Forcepoint picks up here, it should lose 7.1, yet another game swing value of +12.48. So Pavell-Neibb increase their lead to +43.37, but could easily with normal defense be minus 36.16. Here are the results.

*************
7th game:
N has 10+0+0+2=12/4-2 = B1
S has 2+4+12+4=22/4-2 = B3
PL = B1+B3+1 (for [cl] Super Fit) = 5 (in the [cl] suit)
NT PL = suit's PL - 1 (statistically extracted. NOTE: Can be less if you do not have the necessary Stoppers)

East - South - West - North
pass - 1[cl] (B1 to B4, no 5 card suit) - pass - 2[cl] (B1, 5 cards suit)
3[cl] - 3[di] [B2+ (because of 3rd Level bid of new suit), 4 card suit] - pass - 3NT (Nell choose to play NT, promosing Stoppers in the Majors)
All Passed

*************
The results on this hand was….
#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl T[space][space][space][space][space]r[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]2HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]n9[space][space][space][space][space]-870[space][space][space][space][space]-15.04
2[space][space][space][space][space]2HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-670[space][space][space][space][space]-13.48
3[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]HQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]-300[space][space][space][space][space]-9.74
4[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]HQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]-8.3
5[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]S5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]-8.3
6[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-140[space][space][space][space][space]-7.78
7[space][space][space][space][space]1H[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-7.09
8[space][space][space][space][space]4H[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]-4.65
9[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
10[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
11[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]o8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
12[space][space][space][space][space]4SX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
13[space][space][space][space][space]5C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]HA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]600[space][space][space][space][space]4.57
14[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
15[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D7[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
16[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
17[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
18[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
19[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
20[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
21[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
22[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]HQ[space][space][space][space][space]NellBB[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]630[space][space][space][space][space]5.39
23[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]660[space][space][space][space][space]5.96
24[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]660[space][space][space][space][space]5.96



Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[cl][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


Five clubs is yet another overbid for ForcePoint. Guess we are all surprised with the defense couldn’t find a way to allow this to make. Finally a minus imp score for the Forcepoint pair (lose 3.43 imps) for a total of +39.94. This is an interesting score, because with just normal defense on the game hands from above, this 3 imp lose here would mean the forcepoint score could be -39.59 imps.

*************
8th game:
N has 4+7+3-2=12/4-2 = B1
S has 6-2-2+12=14/4-2 = B1, with CPC upgrade = B2
PL = B1+B2+1 (for [cl] Super Fit) = 4

South - West - North - East
1[cl] (B2 to B4, no 5 card suit) - 2[di] - 3[cl] (for Nell the PL was 3, if we have Fit in [cl]) - pass
5[cl] (with the [cl] Super Fit I knew the PL is 4, but decided to risk for 1 Down) - All Passed

*************
The results on this hand was….
#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl T[space][space][space][space][space]r[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]C2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-130[space][space][space][space][space]-5.3
2[space][space][space][space][space]2D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-90[space][space][space][space][space]-4.48
3[space][space][space][space][space]2H[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]-50[space][space][space][space][space]-3.43
4[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-50[space][space][space][space][space]-3.43
5[space][space][space][space][space]5C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]C4[space][space][space][space][space]Pavell[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-50[space][space][space][space][space]-3.43
6[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
7[space][space][space][space][space]4D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
8[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
9[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
10[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
11[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
12[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]C2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-0.61
13[space][space][space][space][space]4D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]C2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]0.96
14[space][space][space][space][space]3DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]C2[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]0.96
15[space][space][space][space][space]4C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
16[space][space][space][space][space]3C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]HQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
17[space][space][space][space][space]4C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]SJ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
18[space][space][space][space][space]4C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
19[space][space][space][space][space]4C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]130[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
20[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]C8[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]2.04
21[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]DK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]2.04
22[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]2.04
23[space][space][space][space][space]4H[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]CK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]150[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
24[space][space][space][space][space]4DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]CT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]300[space][space][space][space][space]5.91



Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[cl][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]

Ok Pavell’s opponents found their 4-2 heart fit AFTER they found a diamond fit. This time Pavell deserved to be lucky. I wonder how the bidding would have gone if West had rebid 3D instead of 3H. We may never know. 3H down two was a nice pickup for Pavell- NellBB of 1.65 imps for +41.59 imps (could be -37.94. Here are the results.

*************
9th game:
N has -2+1+0+4=3/4-2 = B(-1)
S has 8+6+6+0=20/4-2 = B3
PL = B(-1)+B3+1 (for [sp] Super Fit) = 3

West - North - East - South
1[di] - Pass (B1 or less, no Major 5 card suit) - 2[di] - 2[sp] [B2+ (after partner's Pass your B# must be at least equal to the Level you bid]
3[he] - All passed (with Negative Base the best thing you can do is to Pass if your partner didn't show at least B4+)

*************
The results on this hand was….
#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl T[space][space][space][space][space]r[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]4SX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]-800[space][space][space][space][space]-14.04
2[space][space][space][space][space]5S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-200[space][space][space][space][space]-7.09
3[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-5.26
4[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-5.13
5[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-5.13
6[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-5.13
7[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]-2.17
8[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]-0.7
9[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]-0.7
10[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]110[space][space][space][space][space]-0.65
11[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]110[space][space][space][space][space]-0.65
12[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]110[space][space][space][space][space]-0.65
13[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
14[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
15[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
16[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
17[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
18[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]CA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]0.26
19[space][space][space][space][space]3H[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space](your opp)[space][space][space][space][space]5[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]1.65
20[space][space][space][space][space]4DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]300[space][space][space][space][space]3.65
21[space][space][space][space][space]5DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S9[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]500[space][space][space][space][space]7.48
22[space][space][space][space][space]3SX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]29[space][space][space][space][space]730[space][space][space][space][space]10.7
23[space][space][space][space][space]3SX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D9[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]730[space][space][space][space][space]10.7
24[space][space][space][space][space]5DX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]800[space][space][space][space][space]11.57[space] [/font]
Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[cl][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


1[cl] is probably as good as any for you. The defense let you make (good defense can hold you to 3[cl], 1[di], 1[he] and 1[sp], and EW could have balanced and played 2 or 3 spades. But this might be a plus of forcepoint. EW might pass 1[cl] hoping it would be better for them than bidding on. This raises the score to +43.94 (it could be -35.59)

**************
10th game:
N has -2-2+4-2=-2/4-2 = B(-2)
S has 9+6+2+6=23/4-2 = B4
PL = B(-2)+B4-1 (for [sp] Misfit) = 1

North - East - South - West
pass - pass - 1[cl] (B2 to B4, no 5 card suit) - All Passed (with deep Negative Base, Pass even with eventually bad Fit, usually the opps will talk, do not worry)

**************
The results on this hand was….
#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl[space][space][space][space][space]Tr[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-150[space][space][space][space][space]-3.48
2[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]HA[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-140[space][space][space][space][space]-3.3
3[space][space][space][space][space]1S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]H2[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-140[space][space][space][space][space]-3.3
4[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C9[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-120[space][space][space][space][space]-2.61
5[space][space][space][space][space]1N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-120[space][space][space][space][space]-2.61
6[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
7[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
8[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]D5[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
9[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
10[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
11[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DQ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
12[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DJ[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-2.39
13[space][space][space][space][space]1N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-2.26
14[space][space][space][space][space]1C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]70[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
15[space][space][space][space][space]1D[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D2[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]70[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
16[space][space][space][space][space]1C[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D2[space][space][space][space][space]Pavell[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]70[space][space][space][space][space]2.35
17[space][space][space][space][space]1D[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]S2[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]90[space][space][space][space][space]2.87
18[space][space][space][space][space]1N[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]S4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]90[space][space][space][space][space]2.87
19[space][space][space][space][space]1D[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]C5[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]90[space][space][space][space][space]2.87
20[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]3
21[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D3[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]3
22[space][space][space][space][space]3S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]D5[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]3
23[space][space][space][space][space]1DX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]140[space][space][space][space][space]4.09
24[space][space][space][space][space]3CX[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]H2[space][space][space][space][space]==========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]5.57

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[cl][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


EW bid their game, and cost 40.03 (could be minus 39.5).

*************
11th game:
N has 2+10+5-2=15/4-2 = B2
S has 0+2+0+5=7/4-2 = B(0)
PL = B2+B(0)+1 (for [he] Super Fit) = 3

East - South - West - North
1[di] - pass - 2[di] - 2[sp] (at least B2+, because of the partner's Pass, 5 card suit)
5[di] - All Passed (the PL for me was 2 or max 3)

*************
Here are the results of board 11.
#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl[space][space][space][space][space]Tr[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]5DX[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-550[space][space][space][space][space]-7.39
2[space][space][space][space][space]5HX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-500[space][space][space][space][space]-6.17
3[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C7[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]12[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-4.61
4[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]12[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-4.61
5[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]C5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]12[space][space][space][space][space]-420[space][space][space][space][space]-4.61
6[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
7[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
8[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H7[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
9[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
10[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
11[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]ST[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
12[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]ST[space][space][space][space][space]wascana[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
13[space][space][space][space][space]5D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-400[space][space][space][space][space]-3.91
14[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]48[space][space][space][space][space]-300[space][space][space][space][space]-1.57
15[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-150[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
16[space][space][space][space][space]4D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]ST[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-150[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
17[space][space][space][space][space]3D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]-150[space][space][space][space][space]1.61
18[space][space][space][space][space]3H[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]28[space][space][space][space][space]-50[space][space][space][space][space]3.65
19[space][space][space][space][space]6D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]5.57
20[space][space][space][space][space]6D[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]11[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]5.57
21[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]HA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]50[space][space][space][space][space]5.57
22[space][space][space][space][space]4H[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]H4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]420[space][space][space][space][space]10.57
23[space][space][space][space][space]4SX[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]DK[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]590[space][space][space][space][space]12.26
24[space][space][space][space][space]4HX[space][space][space][space][space]S[space][space][space][space][space]H4[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]590[space][space][space][space][space]12.26[space]

Scoring: IMP

Board one.
West North East South
[space]Pass[space][space]1[cl][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]1[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]4[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]4NT
[space]Pass[space][space]5[sp][space][space][space][space]Pass[space][space]6[sp]
[space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]Pass[space][space]


This is another hand the opponents controlled, and they went down an extra trick, but ok.. another +3.91 imps for Pavell, but with average defense on the overbid hands, could easily be minus 35.59.

*************
12th game:
N has 6+4+0+4=14/4-2 = B1, with CPC upgrade B2
S has 0+1+6+0=7/4-2 = B(0)
PL = B2+B(0)-1 (for [he] Misfit) = 1

South - West - North - East
Pass - pass - Pass (a mistake, Nell obviously didn't use the CPC upgrade) - 1[cl]
Pass - 1[sp] - Pass - 2[cl]
Pass - 2[di] - Pass - 3[cl]
All Passed

*************
The results on this hand was….
#[space][space][space][space][space]Contr[space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space][space]Ld[space][space][space][space][space]Decl[space][space][space][space][space]Tr[space][space][space][space][space]Score[space][space][space][space][space]Pts
1[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]D9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-630[space][space][space][space][space]-11.61
2[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-600[space][space][space][space][space]-11.43
3[space][space][space][space][space]2S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]S3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]10[space][space][space][space][space]-170[space][space][space][space][space]-5.43
4[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]D9[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]-120[space][space][space][space][space]-4.3
5[space][space][space][space][space]3C[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]-110[space][space][space][space][space]-3.52
6[space][space][space][space][space]1NX[space][space][space][space][space]N[space][space][space][space][space]CQ[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]-100[space][space][space][space][space]-3.43
7[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
8[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
9[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
10[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]HT[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
11[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
12[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
13[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
14[space][space][space][space][space]2C[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]DA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
15[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]H3[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]9[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
16[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D7[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
17[space][space][space][space][space]4S[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]SA[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
18[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]8[space][space][space][space][space]100[space][space][space][space][space]1.17
19[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
20[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D8[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
21[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
22[space][space][space][space][space]3C[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]D4[space][space][space][space][space]wascana[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
23[space][space][space][space][space]2N[space][space][space][space][space]E[space][space][space][space][space]H5[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]7[space][space][space][space][space]200[space][space][space][space][space]3.91
24[space][space][space][space][space]3N[space][space][space][space][space]W[space][space][space][space][space]H6[space][space][space][space][space]===========[space][space][space][space][space]6[space][space][space][space][space]300[space][space][space][space][space]6.09


A winning 42 imp score, but could be a next to last place -36 imps, and this doesn't even count the fact that board one slam was less than 20% chance of success. The Forcepoint page hold
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
0

  • 6 Pages +
  • « First
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. Google