[inquiry]

Opponents vul
imps

bidding...
PASS - (1H) - 2D - (2H)
DBL* - (3H) - 4C - (PASS)


Double was "reverse rosenkrantz" showing diamond support without top honor (don't ask me why reverse, that is what this partnership plays, no known reason why). Three hearts was "game try" in hearts.

Without a specific agreement as to the meaning, how are you likely to understanding 4C?

pure game try
mild slam try
gerber
offering help in determining to defend 4H or take a 5D save
offer of alternative contract (non-forcing)
offer of alternative contract (4D or 5C/5D)
or in outer space - lead directing

or some combination of these.

[aguahombre]

offering help in determining to defend 4H or take a 5D save
[/quote]
This looks right. It is possible to want to make a pure game try when the opponents have also made a game try; but very unlikely to be trying for slam with those conditions. I think redouble would be a game try, and 3S or 4C should be length so partner can judge whether to save.

Sounds like Treadway invented that treatment for the double, however ---as a joke. Would 3D have shown a responsive double hand (clubs and spades)?

3H as a game try by the opponents, with all that room in between for game tries, seems like a furtherance of the clowning.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-February-28, 01:21

[gnasher]

A new suit bid in competition doesn't always fit neatly into a single box. It's forcing, it shows a side suit and extra playing strength, and it invites advancer to use his judgement.

The effect of that is that it's mainly "offering help in determining to defend 4H or take a 5D save", with bits of "game try" and "inviting a double of 4H". Because it shows length and strength in the suit, it may also lead to playing in 5♣.

[gwnn]

edited out, hope no one read it!

[ahydra]

Nat, showing extras with a club suit?

ahydra

[Phil]

This is similar to my post a few weeks ago:

Side Clubs

It does not show extras; merely the ability to compete to the level bid and inviting partner to compete based on how well they fit clubs.

[inquiry]

i had this auction this past weekend in a regional, and was surprised when partner passed me in 4♣ (not sure I need a real suit). In fact, I had a good hand with six diamonds four clubs... and with the diamond finesse on, 5♣ was making. I was suggesting clubs values (nothing in spades) and placing partner in position to decide to defend or save. It wasn't all bad, because the hand was a push, but I thought 4♣ was forcing to 4♦. Actually, with partners hand, do you bid higher than 4♦ if opponent's pass.. he held:

♠AQ9
♥xx
♦8xxx
♣QT98x

♠x
♥Kx
♦AQJTxx
♣KJxx

clubs were 1-3
diamonds were 1-2, king singleton onside
spade king was off side

Possible double game swing on this hand (if you drop the heart king offside after a spade ruff), neither table got to game.

[DrMunk]

inquiry, on 2012-February-28, 00:23, said:

Opponents vul
imps

bidding...
PASS - (1H) - 2D - (2H)
DBL* - (3H) - 4C - (PASS)


Double was "reverse rosenkrantz" showing diamond support without top honor (don't ask me why reverse, that is what this partnership plays, no known reason why). Three hearts was "game try" in hearts.

Without a specific agreement as to the meaning, how are you likely to understanding 4C?

pure game try
mild slam try
gerber
offering help in determining to defend 4H or take a 5D save
offer of alternative contract (non-forcing)
offer of alternative contract (4D or 5C/5D)
or in outer space - lead directing

or some combination of these.

Obviously it is system on, and 4♣ is always gerber

If we dont have this excellent agreement i have to choose "offering help in determining to defend 4H or take a 5D save".

[dcohio]

Defend or save help for me.

[JLOGIC]

Had no idea what you guys were talking about then I read the explanations of X and 3H lol.

[aguahombre]

JLOGIC, on 2012-February-29, 05:29, said:

Had no idea what you guys were talking about then I read the explanations of X and 3H lol.

That means you are sane, or at least are pretending to be.

[S2000magic]

aguahombre, on 2012-February-28, 00:55, said:

I think redouble would be a game try . . . .

On that auction I'm pretty sure that redouble isn't a game try.

[the_clown]

I would take it is natural, possibly 3 cards if 2 top honours. No matter how strong partner is I am going to bid 5, if I have something in ♣, even with 4 small, which should work out pretty well (either we get a good save, or we bid a game, which might make). If P wanted to save on his own and tell me to lead ♣ vs 5♥ he could have bid 5♣.