[the hog]

Should clearly have opened 1S

[Fluffy]

I haven´t ever played a system that doesn´t open 5 card majors, so I cannot help you.

[joker_gib]

1♠ or 2♠ muiderberg but never 1♣ : hand is not strong enough, too many losers !

[Free]

Too many losers??? You only have 6 at most! I would NEVER open this as muiderberg, you're too strong...

Opening 1♠ however might be better on this hand, but many guys will open 1♣ because it's their longest suit. It's a matter of preference imo, but you will easily miss your ♠ fit imo.

[junyi_zhu]

Flame, on Oct 23 2004, 01:23 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

---

i opened 1c and it cont
1c (1H) 1NT (2H)
what should i bid now ?

it's probably better to open 1S here. The hand is rather weak, and your club suit isn't very good either, so 1S is practical.

[inquiry]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 2♠ here. You are short on points, very long on distributional values. Your partner, who bid a free 1NT, will have either three card spade fit, or three card PLUS club fit. HE will totally discount his heart honors (given the bidding). Even if he only bids only 3♣, I will raise to 4,

Now as to the question of what to open with this hand, that is another issue entriely. If mulderberg 2♠ was not available, I would start 1♣ I think also.

[daswallow]

I would open this hand 1c. I may have to stretch to bid spades later, but at least I have shape and have got this across.

[Flame]

inquiry, on Oct 28 2004, 10:11 AM, said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 2♠ here. You are short on points, very long on distributional values.

A reverse show more then 9 hcp, true i have extra shape, but still i would think 6-5 need atleast 13 hcp for a reverse. Partner will double the opponents based on 16 hcp in my hand and when ill pull it he will understand i have 6-5 (and not 5-4) but he will also understand i have 13+ hcp (can be alot more). partner might bid slam or double them on the next level.
Im not saying 2sp is wrong, i really wanted to bid it myself, just that my bridge is always thinking of partner first, if i think he will not understand my bid , i dont bid it. This hand i think 2sp is the worse of evil but dont agree of it being a normal bid with no problems.

[inquiry]

Well, presuming partner has clubs on this auction, and that is not a terrible strectch, although he could be 2-4-5-2, your hand is pretty darn good, even if "weak" (nine counts don't usually count for reverses).

What you can't bid is double, partner may leave it in and that would not be a happy contract for you. Nor with 6-5 and every expectation of a good fit can you pass. So only two bids are possible, 2♠ and 3♣. Three clubs might catch your partner with 3-4-5-1 or 3-4-4-2, where you belong in spades.

As for reverse, your partner is looking at ~10 points for his free 1NT bid, and he has heard his LHO overcall your opening bid and RHO raise despite his won 1NT call. Give overcaller a light 8 and raiser a lighter 6, that leaves you with at most 16 hcp. Sometimes, in competition, you ahve to make a bid. If you had a true "reverse" with a monster 6-5 hand here, you would jump to three spades.

This hand is reminscent of two recent ones from BBO.... here is the first, from august 7th, where 5♣s win 6.07 imps losing only to 5♣xx and 3♦x....

Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 Pass  1♣    1♦    1NT
 2♦    2♠    Pass  3♣
 Pass  5♣    Pass  Pass
 Pass  

---

Here is the second, where 4♠ wins only 3 imps (most opened 1♠ and found their spade fit right away.... btw, this shows a second DANGER of not biddign 2♠ now... if everyone else choose the wimpy 1♠ opening bid and you have a spade fit, they will be in spades, something a pass by you now risk missing totally....

Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 Pass  1♣    1♦    1NT
 2♦    2♠    Pass  3♣
 Pass  5♣    Pass  Pass
 Pass  

---

For some people, myself included, I believe in hand type first (distribution first? pattern first?) and catch up on stregnth later. With 6-5, I think the old saying "with six-five come alive" is best... especially in this assumed fit auction.

Ben

[Flame]

Both those hands are a bit stronger then mine, but ok i will bid it from now.

[whereagles]

That's interesting... you hold AJ987 -- Kx JT9xxx and the bidding was:

1C (1H) 1NT (2H)

Pard doesn't have 4 spades, and he's limited to 10 hcp and balanced, his worst shape to play in clubs being 3532. Opps have 21+ points and an 8-9 card heart fit, but you know cards don't lie well for them.

What will happen if you now bid a tactical 4C? It is the way of life that it will go on

1C (1H) 1NT (2H)
4C (4H) dbl

and if pard passes 4H, then you have a case for bidding 4S or 5C.

[inquiry]

whereagles, on Oct 28 2004, 03:00 PM, said:

That's interesting... you hold AJ987 -- Kx JT9xxx and the bidding was:

1C (1H) 1NT (2H)

Pard doesn't have 4 spades, and he's limited to 10 hcp and balanced, his worst shape to play in clubs being 3532. Opps have 21+ points and an 8-9 card heart fit, but you know cards don't lie well for them.

What will happen if you now bid a tactical 4C? It is the way of life that it will go on

1C (1H) 1NT (2H)
4C (4H) dbl

and if pard passes 4H, then you have a case for bidding 4S or 5C.

If your partner is 3-5-3-2, your tatical 4♣ bid will end the auction, and you are playing in 6-2 fit at the four level, with no wasted values in clubs, and a reasonable shot at making 4♠ in your 5-3 fit. To RUB salt into the wound, as you can see from the other post in this thread, the "field" opened 1♠ with this hand and EASIY found their 5-3 fit and got to likely laydown 4♠ contract.

This doesn't mean that 4♣ might not go exaclty as you envision, but on another day, your partner will be 3-3-5-2 and will wack four hearts thinking you ahve somethign for you leap to 4♣, and they will make an overtrick. That is the great thing about bridge, on one day, 4♣ will be the hero bid (you get them if 4♥, on other days, you play 4♣ when 4♠ is cold, or you double them in 4♥ and they make an overtrick. The thing about 2♠ is it is flexible. You are unlikley to get them in 4♥, and you are more likley to get into your correct suit (clubs or spades) with this bid. The level is still to be decided. After 2♠, you may have to "curb your parntner's enthusiasm" if he thinks you are 6-5 with 20 hcp.

Ben

[whereagles]

inquiry, on Oct 28 2004, 08:30 PM, said:

but on another day, your partner will be 3-3-5-2 and will wack four hearts thinking you ahve somethign for you leap to 4♣, and they will make an overtrick.

Actually, the one reason you can bid a tactical 4C is that pard has limited his hand with 1NT. The wierd-looking 4C bid, because of the fact it leaped through a bunch of various strenght showing and lead directing bids, does not logically invite partner's cooperation in anything. It's a pressure-bid. Pard should only bid what's in front of him, and that means no doubles based on what he thinks opener will have for the 4C bid.

But of course that's easier said than done

[jikl]

Both of the hands that you supplied Ben, I have no problem bidding 2♠. These are both offensive hands with Aces and therefore controls in the key suits. With the hand supplied it is more likely you are saccing over 4♥ and by passing now you don't risk partner going berserk.

Sean

[inquiry]

jikl, on Oct 28 2004, 04:44 PM, said:

Both of the hands that you supplied Ben, I have no problem bidding 2♠. These are both offensive hands with Aces and therefore controls in the key suits. With the hand supplied it is more likely you are saccing over 4♥ and by passing now you don't risk partner going berserk.

Sean

You are right Sean, if you pass, your partner will not go bezerk. The problem is, your partner, having limited his hand, is most likely to let them play 2♥ if you pass. He is unlikely to have the distribution to find another bid. That is likely to be an very unsatisfactory contract.

And as far as your partner going bezerk you have one more level of protection. Your partner bid a limited and descriptive 1NT response. In a good captain-mate auction, a 1NT bidder can never now go ballistic on you.

Ben