[Phil]

Axx K8xxx Axx KJ

Pairs R/W

Pass by pard, 1♥ on right. You?

[Quartic]

1NT - I have a good ♥ stop, and enough strength.

[Statto]

Pass. The vulnerability and that pard is a passed hand are amongst the deciding factors. The ♣KJ holding isn't that great either.

(Edit: corrected ♦ to ♣)

This post has been edited by Statto: 2012-January-15, 23:38

[mike777]

seems like an easy pass on the forum ....but.....

[sasioc]

Easy pass. I'm vul, my p is a passed hand and in general I'll only bid 1NT with a *good* 15 count - this is not a good 15 after 1H. I have no obvious source of tricks and not a pip in sight. It feels like I need to hit partner with a reasonable suit to be in a good position after bidding this, both in terms of expecting to make 1NT and in terms of what we'll do now if doubled.

Unlike Quartic I don't think my heart stop is actually particularly good (not a massive priority for me when evaluating this but thought I'd mention), given that my highest card apart from the K is the 8. I'd much rather have shorter hearts with better pips and some useful length elsewhere.

[Fluffy]

I learn on the forums to pass with 5 cards in opponent's major, and this is regardless of strenght. I try to keep doing it and don;t see this hand remotelly close to be an exception.

[whereagles]

Yucky hcp placement and no need to bid. Pass this.

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on 2012-January-16, 04:43, said:

I learn on the forums to pass with 5 cards in opponent's major, and this is regardless of strenght. I try to keep doing it and don;t see this hand remotelly close to be an exception.

Hmm, I missed that part on the forums. But, I don't think I want to enter the auction in the given case.

[mikeh]

Pass

We have good defence, poor offence......and the odds are far too high that 1N (surely our only possible bid) will end the auction....in which case we need partner to hold the majority of the missing hcp, after placing rho with a minimum opening. Given that he is the only one of the other 3 players to have yet expressed an opinion, and his was 'pass', how can we assume that he will probably hold a pleasant surprse for us?

To cement matters, on some of the hands on which his hand makes an overcall 'work', he will invite or drive to game....and this is a sub-minimum notrump hand. I love controls, and this hand is above average there, but our length couldn't be in a worse suit, and our spots could hardly be worse than they are.

[nigel_k]

Pass is not just a tactic here. We should pass because our hand is simply not good enough to bid 1NT. The honours in the short suits mean it is a fairly poor 15 even before taking into account that our five card suit is breaking terribly.

[ggwhiz]

Pass

1nt could be a winner but ONLY if you play systems off. Pard has a lot of cards that are not ♥ but with systems on, you are at the 3 level unless they have spades or stranded in a no-winners 1nt and this hand just ain't worth it.

If we belong in the auction, pard may be able to balance, ie if it continues 1nt - 2 clubs passed back to pard.

[Phil]

I passed too. It didn't work out so well this time.

[neilkaz]

I can't o/c 1NT at this vul with this hand

[aguahombre]

Phil, on 2012-January-16, 15:33, said:

I passed too. It didn't work out so well this time.

Did one of the other players do something to cause that?

[mikeh]

Phil, on 2012-January-16, 15:33, said:

I passed too. It didn't work out so well this time.

so what?

Phil, I know you are far too good a player to think that an action (or inaction) should be judged, in any meaningful way, by how it fared on any given hand.

In any event, as the posts here demonstrate, passing will not usually lead directly to a poor result....you would usually have company. At teams, unless it were a short match, I would expect to beat any team comprised of players who think this is a good overcall. At mps, I expect to do well in a field filled with such players.....let them have this one, I'll beat them on judgment in the long run.

[Phil]

mikeh, on 2012-January-16, 16:04, said:

so what?

Phil, I know you are far too good a player to think that an action (or inaction) should be judged, in any meaningful way, by how it fared on any given hand.

In any event, as the posts here demonstrate, passing will not usually lead directly to a poor result....you would usually have company. At teams, unless it were a short match, I would expect to beat any team comprised of players who think this is a good overcall. At mps, I expect to do well in a field filled with such players.....let them have this one, I'll beat them on judgment in the long run.

Thanks Mike.

Honestly my pard was having a rough day, and had a lot of tough decisions. He chose not to preempt this hand - he held a 2227 and AQxxxxx of clubs, which I understand (but don't agree with), but I think this is an easy overcall if he chooses to pass. I was looking for some places to take some charges - and I guess I convinced myself this was closer than I thought LOL.

[JLOGIC]

This is not even close.

I mean in general 15 opposite a passed hand r/w should not overcall 1N unless it has good positional values (AQT of hearts or whatever). When you have king fifth of hearts and your only spot is the 8, that is horrible, as the spots will come into play. Also, your long suit will not produce a source of tricks obviously, you should always be downgrading when you have length in their length since the value of a 5 card suit is now negative. And of course if they rip you you have less of a chance to be able to run anywhere successfully.

I would pass even if you gave me another point.

[Quartic]

On second thought, I think I prefer pass after all. For me its quite a close decision, and I might go either way at the table.

[bd71]

JLOGIC, on 2012-January-16, 17:21, said:

This is not even close.

I mean in general 15 opposite a passed hand r/w should not overcall 1N unless it has good positional values (AQT of hearts or whatever). When you have king fifth of hearts and your only spot is the 8, that is horrible, as the spots will come into play. Also, your long suit will not produce a source of tricks obviously, you should always be downgrading when you have length in their length since the value of a 5 card suit is now negative. And of course if they rip you you have less of a chance to be able to run anywhere successfully.

I would pass even if you gave me another point.

What if that point were the JH? Seems to me that would push us into a decent 1N call.

[whereagles]

bd71, on 2012-January-16, 19:08, said:

What if that point were the JH? Seems to me that would push us into a decent 1N call.

Not really. Unless you happen to find some entries in dummy, you might end up being forced to play hearts from hand.