[helene_t]

1♦-1♠
3NT-4♣

3NT shows a solid diamond suit and some sort of stops in the unbid suits, usually a singleton spades. I wondered if partner meant 4♣ as natural or as a cuebid agreeing diamonds. (Of course, if you play Gerber that could also be an option). Anyway, there is not much bidding space left. What agreements do you have?

Also, the definition of the 3NT rebid should probably be more accurate. What are the alternatives, for example if the hand is too slamish? Would you fake a reverse with 2♥?

[whereagles]

I don't have any agreement in particular, but it seems logical to me that 4C is a cue agreeing diamonds. If the hand is much too strong to bid 1m-1x-3NT, say..

x
Kxx
Ax
AKQxxxx

I tend to open 2C and bid the minor, followed by 3NT, e.g.

2C 2D
3C 3x
3NT

For better or worse, that's how I would do it

[han]

Yes, I play this as a cue.

3NT shows solid diamonds, something in both unbid suits, and at most 2 spades, but not a true powerhouse. I would not open 2C on the hand given by wereagles, but rebid 3NT.

This question brings back bad memories. I once had this identical auction in a tournament when playing with a studend. The opponents asked what 4C meant, and I (knowing very well that my partner had no clue to what was happening) said it was a cuebid for diamonds. My partner now understood what my 3NT was and bid the diamond slam.

(Yes I know, I should be burned alive for cheating like this)

[joker_gib]

For me that's natural ! 4♣ = slamish hand with ♠ and ♣ !

If I want to agree ♦ for a slam I simply bid 4 ♦ (bridge can be simple sometimes )

[inquiry]

joker_gib, on Nov 9 2004, 10:39 AM, said:

For me that's natural ! 4♣ = slamish hand with ♠ and ♣ !

If I want to agree ♦ for a slam I simply bid 4 ♦ (bridge can be simple sometimes  )

Nope, can never be this. It can not be an offer to play in some other suit besides diamonds. Partner has defined a suit suitable for slam opposite a void, so why look for another suit. IF we are playing in a suit, it will be diamonds, or perhaps my first suit if I rebid it. With any two suiter, my suit can't possibly be suitable to override partner's suit.

What can 4♣ be? I could accept it as GERBER, but only by previous explicit agreement.

It can not be weak. Parnter is willing to gamble, so I go with him on that, so therefore, it is a cue-bid, slam try, and 4♦ by opener over this as RKCB, also if responder had bid 4♦ over 3NT, that would have been minorwood.

Ben

[Rebound]

I would tend to agree with Inquiry, if there's no prior agreement. However, with my regular partner, 4C is gerber over any NT rebid.

[whereagles]

Hum.. there's a case for 4m being both forcing and non-forcing, lol. It depends on what you bid 3NT with, really. If the 3NT rebid can be made on hands with two side stoppers, say the above

x
Kxx
Ax
AKQxxxx

then, since responder can't gauge how many tricks pard has, 3NT can be quite cold, so pass is the only weak bid and 4C is strong (RKCB or whatever).

If on the other hand you agree to open 2C on a hand with 2-3 side tricks, then the 3NT rebid will usually be made on a hand with 1 side stopper, typically

x
Kxx
xx
AKQxxxx

and therefore responder's 4C now is a sign-off. Perhaps he has

Kxxxx
Qxxx
xxx
x

I personally like to open 2C rather light, so that the 1-level openings effectively truncate around 19-20 points. But that's just me

[joker_gib]

Ben,

I never said that I would not play in diamonds but i'm interested if partner has something in ♣ and he will say it by bidding 4♥ or 4♠ !

Alain

[Flame]

For me 4c is cue bid aggreing diamond, new suits at the 4 level are usually not nat, and when partner show a solid suit its even more obvious.

[Free]

4♣ is cue imo, for ♦ or NT, whatever, but certainly NOT natural. Gerber is also a possibility...

[pclayton]

Some auctions are ambiguous, some are 100% clear. This one is the latter.

4♣ is a cue-bid, looking for the bigger and better. If pard wants to take over with minorwood or kickback, thats fine too. Your 4♣ is probably just what pard is missing.

[PriorKnowledge]

The way I like to play
3N = 7 to 7.5 tricks, no outside A or K
1m 1M 3N = 7.5 to 8 tricks, 1 outside A or K
2C 2D 3N = 8.5 to 9 tricks, 1 to 2 outside A or K
2C 2D 2H 2S 3N = 9.5 to 10 tricks, (2H forces 2S)

[the hog]

"Hum.. there's a case for 4m being both forcing and non-forcing, lol."

No there is no case for this whatsoever.

Now as to the meaning of 4C.
Ben made a pertinent comment; opener has shown an exellent D suit. 4C cannot under any circumstance be natural; why on earth are you fishing for a suit contract at the 4 level. 4C is a cue agreeing Ds; 4D would be KC in D. Now the interesting bid on Helene's posted auction is 4S - responder's first bid. Is this to play or a cue? I would say to play, but....I am open to be convinced.

[han]

whereagles, on Nov 9 2004, 10:01 AM, said:

Hum.. there's a case for 4m being both forcing and non-forcing, lol.

It looks like wereagles thought that the opening bid was 1C (instead of 1D), then the comment makes sense.

[whereagles]

Yeah, that's what I meant. In my examples, the solid suit is clubs.

[Fluffy]

I can´t see any hand where playing in any suit but ♦ makes more tricks when you have a solid 7 card suit.

Therefore 4♣ would be a cue-bid, I won´t ever play gerber so I have no option but cue.

[luke warm]

fluffy, i'm not crazy about gerber either, but what's the harm IF it's a jump over 1 or 2 nt?