[Uncle Russ]

I just joined and used to be a fairly good player. Have not played in 30 years. So I will begin playing at a relaxed table. Questions:

1. When you sit in at an available spot, what is the etiquette of leaving and how do you do it? Just log off? I don't want to be rude!

2. When you sit in with an unknown partner, is there any convention people usually go by or do you just have to find out as you go?

Thanks,

Russ

[Bbradley62]

Welcome, Russ!

Under [Help] on the main site is a heading [Rules of this site]. Included there is:

Online Bridge Guidelines said:

The bottom line is that bridge is a game and the vast majority of our members play online bridge for recreational purposes. Bridge may be the greatest game ever invented, but it is still only a game. If you do not like how your partner bids or plays it does not matter. Finish the current hand and send a polite chat message to the table before leaving.
There are only 3 possible excuses for a player to leave a bridge table in the middle of a hand:

Other players at the table are breaking the guidelines set down in this document
You get disconnected or have good reason to believe that there is a software problem
You have some kind of personal emergency
Even under these circumstances, it is appropriate to inform the other players at the table before you leave in the middle of a hand (unless you are disconnected of course).

If you are playing the the Main Bridge Club (or the Relaxed Bridge Club) you should expect most players to be playing their own personal versions of SAYC. Yes, everyone's version of SAYC is supposed to be the same, but it simply isn't. Check everyone's profile before you start your first auction, since some of them may say things like "no transfers".

I don't know what your definition of "fairly good player" is, but if you were a life master 30 years ago, even if you're very rusty, you probably don't want to put "beginner" in your profile.

[Uncle Russ]

Bbradley62, on 2011-December-15, 23:40, said:

Welcome, Russ!

Under [Help] on the main site is a heading [Rules of this site]. Included there is:


If you are playing the the Main Bridge Club (or the Relaxed Bridge Club) you should expect most players to be playing their own personal versions of SAYC. Yes, everyone's version of SAYC is supposed to be the same, but it simply isn't. Check everyone's profile before you start your first auction, since some of them may say things like "no transfers".

I don't know what your definition of "fairly good player" is, but if you were a life master 30 years ago, even if you're very rusty, you probably don't want to put "beginner" in your profile.

[Uncle Russ]

Thanks VERY much. Nope--not a life master. Ended up with about 50 MP, playing in local clubs back in the late sixties into the seventies. Never heard of SAYC--so there will be some studying before wading in. I was past Goren, but... I just encountered one pair who wanted to do a "do-over" and the other side wouldn't let them, so one guy quit. Seems to be table talk too. Appreciate the guidelines. Off to study SAYC!

Russ

[BunnyGo]

Uncle Russ, on 2011-December-16, 00:31, said:

Thanks VERY much. Nope--not a life master. Ended up with about 50 MP, playing in local clubs back in the late sixties into the seventies. Never heard of SAYC--so there will be some studying before wading in. I was past Goren, but... I just encountered one pair who wanted to do a "do-over" and the other side wouldn't let them, so one guy quit. Seems to be table talk too. Appreciate the guidelines. Off to study SAYC!

Russ

Welcome to the forums (and back to bridge!)

I wouldn't study SAYC in any detailed sense (I don't think anybody actually plays that...I know that I don't even know it). A lot of people play a "natural" system with 5 card majors, 15-17 NT, and either game forcing or forcing 1 round two over one bids (e.g. 1S-2D). They call that system SAYC or 2/1 (if 2 over 1 bids are game forcing).

Most people play transfers of some kind over NT openings.

If you're confused whether your partner means a bid as artificial, most people don't mind if you ask, especially with a pickup partner. Also, people play a few different forms of blackwood ace asks, so you may want to check with your partner when it comes up.

Besides that, most things (for some definition of "most") are just natural. Have fun!

[Zelandakh]

Hello Russ, welcome to BBO and the forums. The etiquette of the site is available online as a document. I use the old client version and you are probably using the applet version so someone else will have to tell you exactly where to go to see it. Basically though, if you sit at a locked table just say hello and start bidding, perhaps discussing any system points in your partner's profile that are ambiguous or unknown. If you sit as an unlocked table the site rules say you should first ask if it is ok to sit before proceeding as above but the vast majority of players do not do this so do not worry too much about it.

When leaving a table you should always finish the hand you are playing first. It is polite to tell the table that this will be your last hand too. At the end of the hand thank everyone and leave. If you want you can also tell them what a pleasant table it was. If one or more of the players at a table were particularly friendly then you should coinsider marking them as a friend and sending them a private message asking whether you can play together again. This is getting past simple etiquette though!

When sitting opposite a random pick-up partner it is best to assume some hybrid variant of American standards and SAYC. Try to keep the bidding as simple and unmistakeable as possible even when a better bid is available. Most players write the conventions and systems they prefer in their profile. You should probably do the same or you can just agree to your partner's profile if you feel comfortable with that. Some table hosts will not give you permission to join without a profile. One last point on system; if you play outside of the Relaxed and Main Bridge Clubs, or even in these clubs on certain tables, then sometimes another system will be assumed. For example, in the Acol Club your partner will assume Acol without further discussion. Similarly, on an all French table SEF is expected. If you are unsure then ask.

I assume by "do-over" you mean the "undo" function. This is an area where different people have different views. SOme allow all undos; the (arguable) majority allow undos for misclicks but not for a change of mind or for the opening lead. Some allow undos only in the bidding, and some do not allow undos at all. The level of table talk is also very personal - some like it and some hate it.

Finally to self-ratings. The etiquette document I referred to above also has a section explaining what the various ratings mean. Basically, once you have played a year you are intermediate until you are regularly winning tournaments - that is the overwhelmingly vast majority of players on BBO, presumably yourself included. Of course many of those intermediates rate themselves as advanced or even expert. Do not worry about this - assume any partner or opponent you meet is intermediate until they show you otherwise.

But most of all just enjoy yourself. You will meet lots of people on BBO, some will be friendly and some will be rude. Try not to allow the latter category to spoil your fun. There is a huge pool of players available on BBO and plenty of nice partners and opponents to go around. If you find yourself at a bad table then simply announce it is your last hand and leave at the end of it. Try to avoid any kind of "parting shot" to express your annoyance. Just move on, forget, and have fun!

[Uncle Russ]

Most helpful, my friend. Thank you. I too want bridge to be fun and am too old to fight! So your advice is well taken. Once, back when I suppose I would call myself an intermediate, I had a fiery partner who was in the special forces of another country, training with our military. He was an expert and once, when I missed bidding a grand slam, he looked across the table and said: "You idiot! I ought to break your &%$#@ing neck!" We went out for drinks afterward.


When you said you ask permission to join an unlocked hand--did you mean it the other way around?

Thanks,

Russ

[barmar]

Welcome to BBO and the forums.

FYI, "General Bridge Discussion" is for discussion of bridge in general (hence the title), not BBO. For instance, if you had questions about changes in bidding conventions during your 30-year hiatus, this would be a good place to ask them.

If you scan down the list of forums, you'll see that there's a whole category of forums specifically for discussing BBO. The "General BBO Forum" would have been a more appropriate place to post this thread.

[Uncle Russ]

Understood, Admin. If you wish to delete or move the thread, please do so. Thanks.

Russ

[Vampyr]

Uncle Russ, on 2011-December-16, 00:31, said:

Never heard of SAYC--so there will be some studying before wading in.

SAYC stands for Standard American Yellow Card. This was meant to be a simplified version of "Standard American" specially designed as an obligatory system for novice and no-fear type tournaments. The system was printed on a yellow card so it would stand out among other cards so that people who needed one could find it easily.

The SAYC adventure was not a success when first introduced, mainly because the system was designed by a committee, each member of which insisted that his/her favourite convention was indispensable. So the system ended up not very "simplified" at all.* Perhaps the popularity of (very loosely defined) SAYC on the internet has led to a revival of the concept, and SAYC events are once again held. I do not know.

Compare it to the EBU Simple Systems Card which recently added the option of weak 2's and transfer bids over 1NT, mainly to accommodate new players who have been taught this way and would find it very difficult to adapt. Still, some events do not allow even these methods.

[barmar]

While SAYC wasn't very successful for the original purpose it was designed (ACBL tournaments where everyone would play the same card), it found renewed popularity when online bridge started. When you sit down to play with someone and have only 10 seconds to agree on your system, it's useful to have a common point of reference, and SAYC was helpful for this.

[Zelandakh]

Uncle Russ, on 2011-December-16, 11:16, said:

When you said you ask permission to join an unlocked hand--did you mean it the other way around?

No, this is from the "Courtesies when playing online bridge" section of the guidelines:

"It is considered a courtesy to ask other players at a table if it is ok for you to sit down before you take a seat. If, after sitting down without asking, you are asked to leave the table you should do so immediately without making any rude comments."

Despite this, I do not know anyone who asks before sitting. I do know several players who ask after sitting, sometimes even when the table is locked (which some players find irritating since they already gave permission).

[1eyedjack]

I do think that that is a redundant part of the documentation and should be changed. If you spend your life asking to sit before sitting, you will almost always lose the seat to someone else who just sits without asking. It is a courtesy that no-one obeys and as such is not expected. Table host can set the table to require permission to sit. If that flag is set than the act of attempting to sit conveys the request for permission. If the flag is not set then it is safe to assume that permission is not required. End of.

[barmar]

The reason most people don't ask is because they use the "Take me to a table with an open seat" button, which automatically puts them in the seat.

If you don't want randoms taking seats, you should set the "Require permission" option when you set up your table.

I'm moving this thread over to the BBO Discussion forum, where it belongs.