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Break-off poll from an earlier discussion. How strong is this hand?

Poll: Would you respond or pass 1[CL] or 2NT opening by p? (26 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you respond or pass 1[CL] or 2NT opening by p?

  1. I would respond to 1C and 2NT. (14 votes [53.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.85%

  2. I would respond to 1C but pass 2NT. (5 votes [19.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.23%

  3. I would respond to to 2NT but pass 1C. (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  4. I would pass both 1C and 2NT. (3 votes [11.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.54%

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#1 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2004-October-16, 18:09

First hand of the match (nobody vulnerable), MP, partner dealt.
Playing your preference of 2/1 or SAYC, unfamiliar but decent partner.
QJ7
J87
Q975
864

Your partner opens 1. Would you pass or bid?
Your partner opens 2NT, defined as a good 19-bad 21. Would you pass or bid?

You already know my answer. Back in the days when people passed balanced 13 counts and played 21-22 2NT openings, this was a clear bid. Nowadays when 2NT gets opened with decent 19s and 1C gets opened on balanced 12 counts, this isn't worth a response. If you do respond 1NT to 1C with this hand, are you going to jump to 2NT if the 8 got turned into the ace?
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#2 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2004-October-16, 18:25

I would certainly respond to 1C. 2NT is a toss-up - I would probably pass.

Peter
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#3 User is offline   Ulrich 

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Posted 2004-October-16, 18:51

Normal 1N response, unless you play Acol style that 1C 1N = 8-10. Then you bid 1D on this hand. Wtp?
Ulrich von Liechtenstein.
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#4 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-October-16, 18:54

i'd bid 1d on hand 1, playing walsh i expect partner to bid 1nt which i pass... i take 2nt to 3nt on hand 2
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
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#5 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 00:13

No expert here, but I thought 1club...1nt=8-10 hcp not 6-10 hcp so pass
2)Bid 3nt with no real hope.
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#6 User is offline   xx1943 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 01:54

1NT on the first showing 6-9 HCP no mayor. 1NT is also necessary as a sort of preempt against opponents bidding majors, esp. in MP.

As Peter said the second is a toss-up. In IMPs I would bid for sure. In MP I guess I would pass.

Al
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#7 User is offline   helium 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 04:26

1. 1 nt
2. 3 nt in imp pass at mp



kenneth
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#8 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 05:01

I'd probably passs a 1 opening. This looks like a 3 count and I don't want partner to get excited.

I'd probably raise a 2NT contract to 3NT: The costs of raising are much smaller and the benefits of reaching game much higher...

1. 2NT is a miserable contract. Most of the time that 2NT makes, three will make as well

2. Partner has limited his hand, s there is no danger that he will make a strong bid

3. You need to bid your games
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#9 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 07:22

Agree with Richard, pass first and bid game in second.

When you respongo to a level 1 opening you mean you are able to play game opposite a 19 balanced hand, it is not the kind of hand you are gonna play game ther, but it is a hand that would liek a game opposite a 21 balanced instead.
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#10 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 08:01

fluffy, say you respond 1d to pard's 1c... and say he has that balanced 19 count and jumps to 2nt... can't you pass?

more likely he'll bid 1M or 1nt... if 1nt, you can pass, and the contract is probably improved... if 1M you have a choice... pass to play in the 4/3 or bid 2c
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
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#11 User is offline   Rebound 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 09:26

I respond 1/1 and raise to 3 over 2nt. Partner needs to know you hold something.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy - but it might improve my bridge.
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#12 User is offline   jdulmage 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 10:44

To 1: I would respond 1
To 2NT: I would definately pass. You have 4-3-3-3 distribution, all Queens and Jacks and no long suit.

Partner could hold:

AKx
Qxx
Axxx
AQx

This is just one of the thousands of examples of poor 18-20 counts your partner could hold.

You win 3 spades, 1 heart (if that), 3 diamonds (if that) and maybe 2 clubs. So with the opps having PERFECT holding, you could make 9 tricks. The other 98% of the time, you will go down. Worth it?
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#13 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 11:05

jdulmage, on Oct 17 2004, 07:44 PM, said:

To 2NT: I would definately pass. You have 4-3-3-3 distribution, all Queens and Jacks and no long suit.

Partner could hold:

AKx
Qxx
Axxx
AQx

This is just one of the thousands of examples of poor 18-20 counts your partner could hold.

You win 3 spades, 1 heart (if that), 3 diamonds (if that) and maybe 2 clubs. So with the opps having PERFECT holding, you could make 9 tricks. The other 98% of the time, you will go down. Worth it?

I BELIEVE that the question is what you do after partner's 2NT opening:

I'd be very surprised if partner tabled an 18 count...
Alderaan delenda est
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#14 User is offline   jdulmage 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 11:06

OOPS! LOL.

If it's opening, then yeah, I would be bidding it up to 3NT.
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#15 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 12:07

luke warm, on Oct 17 2004, 02:01 PM, said:

fluffy, say you respond 1d to pard's 1c... and say he has that balanced 19 count and jumps to 2nt... can't you pass?

more likely he'll bid 1M or 1nt... if 1nt, you can pass, and the contract is probably improved... if 1M you have a choice... pass to play in the 4/3 or bid 2c

This is an old question, to me 2NT is game forcing, given that is is game forcing I´ve put some of the strtong 1 suiters on the 2NT rebid as well, so 2NT rebid isn´t necesarilly balanced. But it is not the point, 2NT rebid by opener should be game forcing, is one of the basis of the 5 card major I know.
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#16 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 13:04

ok, if you play it as gf that's all there is to it... i don't play any known limit nt bid as game force... opener is saying he has 18, 19 hcp (usually balanced)... that can be passed, the same as an opening 2nt can be passed ... to me, that is... others see it differently, i'm sure

if opener has a big hand with a strong one suiter, he might just as well bid 3nt as 2nt
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#17 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 13:42

I evaluate the hand as a 4-count, and would always pass 1C. At matchpoints, I would also pass 3NT (if 2NT goes down too, I'd still rather be in 2NT than 3NT!). At IMPs I'd bid 3NT of course.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#18 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-October-17, 13:44

If you don't bid on 2NT you're crazy imo! These days we only need about 24 HCP together to make 3NT or 4M. If you pass a 2NT opening, you will play in 2NT with an average of 27 combined HCP! Absolute madness!

Pass over 1? Never, but I can understand some will pass. It's a bidder's game, so bid if you have half the deck. I won't be a good boy by bidding 1, I'll be a good bidder with 1NT.
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#19 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2004-October-18, 04:53

luke warm, on Oct 17 2004, 02:01 PM, said:

fluffy, say you respond 1d to pard's 1c... and say he has that balanced 19 count and jumps to 2nt... can't you pass?

more likely he'll bid 1M or 1nt... if 1nt, you can pass, and the contract is probably improved... if 1M you have a choice... pass to play in the 4/3 or bid 2c

With good 19 P would have opend 2NT per definition of this system, so they are bad 19 and i can pass 2NT or the hand is not balanced.

If p had is not balanced my hand might be good enough for game.
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#20 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-October-18, 06:24

Free, on Oct 17 2004, 07:44 PM, said:

If you don't bid on 2NT you're crazy imo! These days we only need about 24 HCP together to make 3NT or 4M. If you pass a 2NT opening, you will play in 2NT with an average of 27 combined HCP! Absolute madness!

24 HCP is enough when you have 12 opposite 12.

20 opposite 6 makes less tricks than 12 opposite 12.
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