[han]

Vulnerable against not, IMPs.

x
xxxx
Jxx
Qxxxx

p - p - 1S - Dbl
4S - p - p - Dbl
p - ??

[Fluffy]

I´d bid 4NT

[pooltuna]

Are you out of green cards or is your "paas" button broke?

[sasioc]

4NT seems fairly standard to me...am I missing something here?

[JLOGIC]

The reason to not bid 4N would be because of the vulnerability, combined with the fact that your hand is so bad, leading you to believe you are unlikely to make anything at the 5 level and when they make 4S, you will often go for 500 anyways. On the other hand, there is a reasonable chance partner has 4 tricks in his own hand on this auction.

[sasioc]

I see your point about the vulnerability - I'm certainly not very happy with a 4nt bid on the hand but my initial feeling was that I didn't really have a choice. While partner certainly may have four tricks in his hand it surely could also be the case that oppo will struggle to double us if we have a decent fit and at the table I'd be nervous that 4S might make an over. Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic though! Could it also be the case that if they are making an overtrick it's because side suits break poorly, which will make it easy for them to double us in something and more likely to collect a large penalty if they do?

[han]

If you pass you score +500. If you bid you score -300, they won't double.

[JLOGIC]

4 tricks easier than 11!

[MickyB]

What was partner's hand?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Opp must have been a BOT... Once they start DBLing, you can't get them to stop !

[ggwhiz]

My partnership rule is that you don't pull this unless you might make. MIGHT is a key word.

This doesn't qualify and we eat our -590's with a bit of ketchup but both partners are ok with it.

[JLOGIC]

ggwhiz, on 2011-November-02, 20:47, said:

My partnership rule is that you don't pull this unless you might make. MIGHT is a key word.

This doesn't qualify and we eat our -590's with a bit of ketchup but both partners are ok with it.

When you're red vs white that should always be true...you don't bid at the 5 level unless you think you might make. Who's saving r/w?

[Free]

I'm slowly learning to pass such hands, hope it will gain a lot in the future...

[han]

Partner had AQ109 AKQx Qx K10x. Should partner pass 4S with this? Or should partner hope that you pass because of the vulnerability?

[Oof Arted]

I dont see any argument for not Passing

If partner has lost his/her marbles then so be it

But I always trust partners (even when they are wrong)

[Cyberyeti]

han, on 2011-November-03, 04:16, said:

Partner had AQ109 AKQx Qx K10x. Should partner pass 4S with this? Or should partner hope that you pass because of the vulnerability?

Obvious pass for partner, this is a takeout double unless you've agreed otherwise.

x, AKQx, KQxx, AJ10x closer to what I expected where it's not clear what you want to do even seeing the hand.

[han]

I was partner and I think I didn't lose my marbles. I know my partner, and I know he looks at the vulnerability before bidding. Watching vugraph together a couple of days earlier we saw Wooldridge hold something like x KJxx xxxx xxxx after 4S - Dbl - pass, I believe vulnerable against not. People can correct me if I have the hand completely wrong. We both thought that Wooldridge had an automatic pass (Wooldridge did eventually pass, but it had turned dark outside by the time he finished thinking).

I also knew RHO, who is very aggressive and had opened 1S white in third seat on Jxxx of spades. This makes it more likely that partner can pass. If I double and partner passes, we are likely to turn a couple of 50's into what looks like a very good score. If partner pulls, we are quite likely to turn a plus into a minus, but on a very good day we can make a game. So the question is, how often will partner pass? A difficult question not knowing my partner's hand.

If you think that partner has a clear pass then I think you should double with my hand. If you think that partner's hand is a clear pull, then obviously you shouldn't double with my hand.

Cyberyeti, I also think that the second double is takeout and that I didn't have what I "showed". I don't think that that makes pass necessarily the best call though!

I'd be very interested in what others think about my second double. When I doubled I felt that the correct call was probably pass, but looking at the colors and my RHO I thought that it was likely that double would end well. Perhaps I was misleading myself, and knew pass was correct but my 20 HCP gave me the feeling I was being stolen from which made me want to double again. What do you think?

All of this happened at a club game btw, not the transnationals.

[whereagles]

Han: it's very unusual that doubler has that strong spades. From responder's point of view, pulling to 4NT is very appealing.

Still, given our spade shortness there's a tendency for doubler to have a strong NT-ish hand, possibly with a trump trick. Pass is a possibility but I wouldn't be surprised if pard has your average 1444 with extras.

[JLOGIC]

It seems like partner will usually have a spade void, in which case he will usually pull, so I don't agree with you. Yes, with a stiff spade and a weak hand he'll probably pass but a spade void changes everything completely.

[gnasher]

Even if partner doesn't have a spade void, he might well have something like x xxx KJxxxx xxx. You'd expect him to bid with that, wouldn't you?

I think the right approach in these situations is to double when you think you have a game bonus to protect, and accept the occasional missed opportunity on a partscore deal.