[han]

gnasher, on 2011-November-03, 11:27, said:

Even if partner doesn't have a spade void, he might well have something like x xxx KJxxxx xxx. You'd expect him to bid with that, wouldn't you?

I think the right approach in these situations is to double when you think you have a game bonus to protect, and accept the occasional missed opportunity on a partscore deal.

I'd expect him to bid with that, yes. As Justin said, if partner has a void, he'll also bid. So yes, I definitely agree that there are hands with which partner would bid, and most of those would lead to a worse score than if I pass.

Let me ask you a question regarding your second comment. You have a balanced 20-count, RHO opens 1S white against red in third seat, and LHO raises to 4S. Do you think that you have a game bonus to protect? To be honest, I really did not know how likely this was at the table.

[pooltuna]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-November-03, 04:40, said:

Obvious pass for partner, this is a takeout double unless you've agreed otherwise.

x, AKQx, KQxx, AJ10x closer to what I expected where it's not clear what you want to do even seeing the hand.

Where do you live? Meh but you probably don't have much as clearly you must get robbed a lot

[pooltuna]

han, on 2011-November-03, 12:49, said:

I'd expect him to bid with that, yes. As Justin said, if partner has a void, he'll also bid. So yes, I definitely agree that there are hands with which partner would bid, and most of those would lead to a worse score than if I pass.

Let me ask you a question regarding your second comment. You have a balanced 20-count, RHO opens 1S white against red in third seat, and LHO raises to 4S. Do you think that you have a game bonus to protect? To be honest, I really did not know how likely this was at the table.

I know where you live!! Do you have a strong lock on your door?

[gnasher]

han, on 2011-November-03, 12:49, said:

Let me ask you a question regarding your second comment. You have a balanced 20-count, RHO opens 1S white against red in third seat, and LHO raises to 4S. Do you think that you have a game bonus to protect? To be honest, I really did not know how likely this was at the table.

I don't know either. It's certainly a possibility, and more likely against people who like to open suits that they don't have. If the opponents are short on high cards but have the spade fit that they've promised, partner might have bid already, whereas if RHO has psyched outright partner could still have a balanced hand.

Our strong spade holding helps to reduce the chance that we have game on. LHO has to cater for the possibility that he's facing an opening bid, so he can't bid 4♠ on tram tickets. As his hand doesn't contain ♠AQ10, it is likely to include some minor-suit high cards, as well as a shortage somewhere. Both of those make game our way less likely.

[bigbenvic]

My partner would bid 4nt if he was sure we should be playing it as a 'true' takeout, thus he is almost certainly balanced and better than a 1nt opening.

I pass.

[JLOGIC]

FWIW han I like that you're trying to think outside the box but I think you missed with this one and are basically crazy.

I remember when I posted a really unconventional action on this forum and MFA told me I was insane though, he was probably right but it's still good to think about these things.

Basically the concept with your actual hand is that you are beating them so many when partner passes that the upside of the double is extremely large, perhaps worth the risk of going minus when partner bids instead of plus undoubled undertricks.

It is an interesting concept that I haven't seen explored, but I feel like your chances of making when partner bids something are too small, and the chance of partner bidding even r/w is too great.

Also imp odds not being equal to total point odds works against you in this situation.

[han]

Thanks all for your comments!