[Bbradley62]

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Has GIB's hand evaluation algorithm been tweaked recently such that North is only valued at 12 HCP total points?

This post has been edited by Bbradley62: 2011-October-24, 18:37

[Bbradley62]

But, this North is 8+ total points...

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[georgi]

What used to bid North with hand#1(board2)?

[Bbradley62]

Bbradley62, on 2011-October-24, 15:03, said:

Has GIB's hand evaluation algorithm been tweaked recently such that North is only valued at 12 HCP?

georgi, on 2011-October-24, 16:06, said:

What used to bid North with hand#1(board2)?

I don't know, which is why I asked the question instead of making a statement. I just don't recall ever thinking "that hand is too strong for a limit raise" before.

[cloa513]

Bbradley62, on 2011-October-24, 15:03, said:

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Has GIB's hand evaluation algorithm been tweaked recently such that North is only valued at 12 HCP?

You mean 12 TP- which is of course inconsistant with other evaluations.

[georgi]

Bbradley62, on 2011-October-24, 16:13, said:

I don't know, which is why I asked the question instead of making a statement. I just don't recall ever thinking "that hand is too strong for a limit raise" before.

1 minor - 1NT -> -- 3- H; 3- S; 6-10 HCP; 7+ total points
1 Major - 1NT -> Forcing one notrump -- 3- Major; 6+ HCP; 12- total points

As GIB can use 1minor - 2NT to show balanced invite with 11-12 HCP, 1NT is promising less.
As GIB can't use 1major - 2NT to show the same meaning due this is !Jacoby -> support; balanced -- 4+ Major; 13+ total points it must pick up other bid.
So with stronger hand GIB will bid GF 2♣/♦ or higher etc, depend on holdings.

Even looking stronger, it's hand which could be described later ( North doesn't consider 1NT it will be passed ). So 3♠ duly delivers information it was good support with 3rd fit and good slam was reached.

[Bbradley62]

"A good slam was reached" because South has a mountain; the auction and play would have been the same (I hope) if North had not had ♦Q. (I would have led low to ♣K instead of the J, to guard against a nasty ♣ split.)

I am not questioning the methodology as you have laid it out; I am questioning valuing the North hand at only 12 total points. The GIB system notes say:

Quote

Gib uses both old fashioned HCP (A=4,K=3,Q=2,J=1)) and “Total points” (HCP+3 for void, 2 for singleton, 1 for doubleton).

I would expect the North hand to be valued at 12HCP plus 1 for the doubleton, making 13 total points.

[Antrax]

When I was taught this evaluation method, I was told not to count a suit "twice". So if you count the ♣K, you can't also count the club doubleton. Otherwise a singleton Q is as good as an ace, etc. So to me, N #1 looks like 12 "total points"

[georgi]

Yes, if the K♣ was K♠ and same shape, same hand would be evaluated to 13TP.

[Bbradley62]

I guess I learned the old-fashioned way that "protected" honors counted both ways: a singleton A counts as both an A and a singleton, but a singleton K doesn't; a doubleton K counts as both a K and a doubleton, but a doubleton Q doesn't. When I have time, I'm sure I will find plenty of counter-examples where GIB appears to double-count. In the meantime, can someone who is familiar with the internals of recent updates let us know whether the hand-evaluation methodology has changed recently? Thanks.