[dcohio]

What's your call?

A
AQT6xx
AJxx
Kx

Red v white, imps.

You deal and the auction starts:

1H-(3S)-X-(P)

Your call...

[Hanoi5]

4♠. If 4♦ were forcing I'd try that.

[kgr]

Hanoi5, on 2011-October-23, 20:42, said:

4♠. If 4♦ were forcing I'd try that.

Should 4♦ not be forcing?

[dcohio]

4♦ is non forcing here. The only force I have is 4S and 4NT(pick a minor)

[quiddity]

4♠

[neilkaz]

I'll make a move towards slam with 4♠

[aguahombre]

kgr, on 2011-October-24, 02:50, said:

Should 4♦ not be forcing?

Since you asked whether 4D should be forcing, and the "should" part hasn't been answered yet, I will try. The logic about it not being forcing is:

Partner's double forced us to bid at the 4-level, if we didn't pass or bid 3NT --- and she might have been under pressure to even do that. If we make a bid at the minimum level possible and were not already committed to a higher level, the bid we make cannot be forcing. While it would be nice this time to be able to show extra strength and a suit with a 4D bid, we don't have that luxury. So 4S is the only alternative. 4H would really be an underbid.

There are exceptions to that, such as reverses and gadgets; but this isn't one of those.

[kenrexford]

4♠ is not accomplishing diddly squat. What -- we want to have a delicate inquiry where partner bids some sort of esoteric 4NT, without knowing our direction, missing all of this? Or, is this some sort of start to a grand sequence where no one knows what anything means?

Bah!

6♦. Should have play.

[aguahombre]

kenrexford, on 2011-October-24, 13:22, said:

4♠ is not accomplishing diddly squat. What -- we want to have a delicate inquiry where partner bids some sort of esoteric 4NT, without knowing our direction, missing all of this?

Yes, exactly. With most run-of-mill doubles of 3S, partner will bid 4N/4S and we can proceed to show the diamond suit.

[kenrexford]

aguahombre, on 2011-October-24, 13:43, said:

Yes, exactly. With most run-of-mill doubles of 3S, partner will bid 4N/4S and we can proceed to show the diamond suit.

So, partner most of the time will bid 4NT, instead opting to bid a "what are you doing?" 5♣ call less frequently, when slam probably makes opposite the 5♣ call too.

He will bid 4NT most of the time, probably thinking that this asks me to tell him what minor I like, in which case I tell him, but he has no idea what to do next, and again we miss slam.

Or, we wait until he bids 4NT or 5♣ and then we show the diamonds by bidding them at the six-level?

[pooltuna]

As I have the equivalent of 2 tricks more than partner expects I try 6♦

[ggwhiz]

Ahah. The "ubiquitous" (say nothing) cue bid ruled in the master solvers forum.

I'm getting a bunch of old Bridge Worlds from the early 80's and will be able to tell you when it fell out of favour. A looooong time ago.

[aguahombre]

And why are the ones who dislike the cuebid so much sure that they have a diamond fit?

[ggwhiz]

aguahombre, on 2011-October-24, 15:46, said:

And why are the ones who dislike the cuebid so much sure that they have a diamond fit?

Highly unlikely but If we don't, 6♥ is playable. The TO double at this level has to have 2 places to play and if 1 of them was 3nt, it would have been bid.

[dcohio]

kenrexford, on 2011-October-24, 13:22, said:

4♠ is not accomplishing diddly squat. What -- we want to have a delicate inquiry where partner bids some sort of esoteric 4NT, without knowing our direction, missing all of this? Or, is this some sort of start to a grand sequence where no one knows what anything means?

Bah!

6♦. Should have play.

4♠ is what I bid. To me it showed my hand exactly. I have extra values, I have a 6th heart, and I have a fit in a minor. It shows doubt of strain, but is forward going.

Partner bid 5♥, and I settled us into a making 6♥. If partner had bid 5C, I'd have bid 6D and let him pick between 6D and 6H.

His hand was

xx
xxx
KTxx
AJT9

3S bidder held Kxx of hearts. I won the A♠,crossed to AD, heart to the J, Q, K. Club return dropped the QC, claim.

[dcohio]

To me, partner should never bid 4NT over 4♠...

4♠ was a tell me more bid. What does 4NT tell me? I already know he has both minors.

[aguahombre]

I guess you guys pass 3S with, say, XXX KX QXX AQJXX ---or convert a jump to 6D to 6H after making a negative double ---somehow knowing she doesn't have A AXXXX AJXXX KX?

[dcohio]

no thats a 4c bid

[kenrexford]

aguahombre, on 2011-October-24, 18:29, said:

I guess you guys pass 3S with, say, XXX KX QXX AQJXX ---or convert a jump to 6D to 6H after making a negative double ---somehow knowing she doesn't have A AXXXX AJXXX KX?

True. OK -- you have convinced me. I change my call to 5NT. If partner bids 6♣, I make him pick again. 6♦ immediately was sloppy.

[nigel_k]

I don't think there is any standard, but I would suggest:

Immediate 6♦ is at least 5-5 with no first round spade control
5NT then pull 6♣ to 6♦ is more like 6-4, also with no first round spade control

With a first round spade control, I would bid 4♠ then continue with either 6♦ or 5NT as above.