[BunnyGo]

I played a club this week where everyone claimed to play ACOL, but I have my suspicions that they just say "ACOL" the way that people on BBO say "SAYC". Having never played it myself I have three quick questions:

1) Is there a quick primer on it somewhere online?

2) Is it 5 or 4 card majors?

3) How is it pronounced?

Thanks!

-Bunny

[gordontd]

BunnyGo, on 2011-October-12, 09:24, said:

I played a club this week where everyone claimed to play ACOL, but I have my suspicions that they just say "ACOL" the way that people on BBO say "SAYC". Having never played it myself I have three quick questions:

1) Is there a quick primer on it somewhere online?

I'm sure there must be, but I don't know where (I assume you've already done a search).

BunnyGo, on 2011-October-12, 09:24, said:

2) Is it 5 or 4 card majors?

It's 4-card majors (unless it's Dutch Acol), although nowadays many Acol players really play 4-card minors - ie they open minors in preference to majors.

BunnyGo, on 2011-October-12, 09:24, said:

3) How is it pronounced?

It's spelt Acol not ACOL, and it has a short "A" like "rack".

[Cyberyeti]

Don't know if this helps:

http://www.ebu.co.uk...lSystemFile.pdf

off the EBU website.

This is a bit "all things to all people". Acol covers a multitude of sins, example:

4342 16 count, do you open 1♦ or 1♠, for me this varies with who my partner is.

What no trump do you want to play, most play 12-14 but you don't have to.

Most people play 4 card majors, some play 5, some play 5 in spades but 4 in hearts.

[BunnyGo]

Thanks for the quick answers.

As the whole club played 5 card majors (and many played a multi 2 diamond) it seems that they were simply calling it Acol, when really it's probably best described as (sub)standard-Israeli.

[helene_t]

Sometimes "Acol" refers to Culbertson-derived systems in general, as opposed to strong club or 3-way club systems. I.e. it just means that 1♣ is (semi)natural nonforcing and 2♣ is strong, artificial. The rest you have to guess.

To some British people it implies strong twos (strong twos are sometimes referred to as "Acol twos" here on the forum).

In the Netherlands it means specifically 15-17 NT. But in most other countries it means 12-14 or, less often, vulnerability-dependent.

One thing I would be reasonably confident about if my pick-up partner just said "Acol" is that two-level shifts are lighter than in most modern systems. In particular,
1♠-2m
2♠
is non-forcing to almost everyone who calls their system "Acol".

[Vampyr]

helene_t, on 2011-October-12, 10:31, said:

In the Netherlands it means specifically 15-17 NT. But in most other countries it means 12-14 or, less often, vulnerability-dependent.

Since the system was developed in Acol Street in London, the Dutch should choose a new name rather than using an old one to mean something completely different.

The document that was linked to earlier in the thread talked about "red-suit transfers". Lots of people in England use this phrase, and it is one of my pet peeves. Saying "red-suit transfers" instead of "major-suit transfers" is backwards.

Also in England they say "relay" when they mean "bye-stand". When they mean "bye-stand" they say "sharing". And then they claim that Americans do not know how to use the language!

[Antrax]

Come play in Tel Aviv, we all play sub-standard SAYC with alerting regulations that will surprise and delight you.

[wank]

Vampyr, on 2011-October-12, 12:47, said:

Since the system was developed in Acol Street in London, the Dutch should choose a new name rather than using an old one to mean something completely different.

The document that was linked to earlier in the thread talked about "red-suit transfers". Lots of people in England use this phrase, and it is one of my pet peeves. Saying "red-suit transfers" instead of "major-suit transfers" is backwards.

Also in England they say "relay" when they mean "bye-stand". When they mean "bye-stand" they say "sharing". And then they claim that Americans do not know how to use the language!

oh well. it's sad that you don't like it here. be sure to write when you go back to america won't you?

[helene_t]

btw Fluffy says that in Spanish, "Acol" means "Gambling 3NT". And the first people who called their system "Acol" probably meant "Culbertson with a more aggressive opening style".

I once thought that what makes Acol Acol is the 4-cards-up-the-line principle, as opposed to Walsh. That was when I lived in the Netherlands. Then I bought a Scottish Acol book and to my amusement it was based on Walsh style. But here in England, most people open the major on 4M4m hands so it isn't an issue.

[gordontd]

Vampyr, on 2011-October-12, 12:47, said:

Since the system was developed in Acol Street in London, the Dutch should choose a new name rather than using an old one to mean something completely different.

One might wonder why, since Acol Rd (not Street) was called after a place that pronounces its name "Aycol" we don't pronounce it the same way, but we don't.

Vampyr, on 2011-October-12, 12:47, said:

The document that was linked to earlier in the thread talked about "red-suit transfers". Lots of people in England use this phrase, and it is one of my pet peeves. Saying "red-suit transfers" instead of "major-suit transfers" is backwards.

I don't see why it's backwards to call it by the suit that's bid.

Vampyr, on 2011-October-12, 12:47, said:

Also in England they say "relay" when they mean "bye-stand". When they mean "bye-stand" they say "sharing". And then they claim that Americans do not know how to use the language!

Well, the sentences above are contradictory. I'd have more concern about your grasp of logic than your use of English!

[gordontd]

helene_t, on 2011-October-12, 14:27, said:

But here in England, most people open the major on 4M4m hands so it isn't an issue.

Ah, you live in the North, don't you?

[Cyberyeti]

gordontd, on 2011-October-12, 14:36, said:

Ah, you live in the North, don't you?

I'd have said the division was by age more than location, certainly in my neck of the woods, it's seen as older style to open the major.

Most of the younger players open the minor and play Crowhurst and a wide range 1N rebid.

[gordontd]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-October-12, 14:39, said:

Most of the younger players open the minor and play Crowhurst and a wide range 1N rebid.

I thought that went out in the mid-eighties!

[Cascade]

gordontd, on 2011-October-12, 14:34, said:

One might wonder why, since Acol Rd (not Street) was called after a place that pronounces its name "Aycol" we don't pronounce it the same way, but we don't.

Sorry I can't tell the pronunication from "Aycol". Can someone please tell me more clearly how the street name was pronouced?

[Cascade]

gordontd, on 2011-October-12, 14:54, said:

I thought that went out in the mid-eighties!

Certainly in my memory when I subscribed to The Bridge Magazine the standard system used to be up the line with two four card suits.

[gordontd]

Cascade, on 2011-October-12, 14:55, said:

Sorry I can't tell the pronunication from "Aycol". Can someone please tell me more clearly how the street name was pronouced?

Ay as in May

[gordontd]

Cascade, on 2011-October-12, 14:55, said:

Sorry I can't tell the pronunication from "Aycol". Can someone please tell me more clearly how the street name was pronouced?

Actually I think the road name is usually pronounced Acol, but the town of the same name, from where it originated, is pronounced Aycol.

[gordontd]

Cascade, on 2011-October-12, 14:55, said:

Certainly in my memory when I subscribed to The Bridge Magazine the standard system used to be up the line with two four card suits.

My comment was about playing Crowhurst and a wide-range NT rebid, which were widely played after Crowhurst's book was published in 1974, but in my experience are not much played now. Clearly Cyberyeti's experience differs.

[Cyberyeti]

gordontd, on 2011-October-12, 14:54, said:

I thought that went out in the mid-eighties!

Norfolk has one player of any sort of standard under 40 so probably That's why I said younger not young.

[campboy]

gordontd, on 2011-October-12, 14:34, said:

Well, the sentences above are contradictory. I'd have more concern about your grasp of logic than your use of English!

Presumably she meant to say 'Also in England they say "relay" when they mean "bye-stand". When they mean "relay" they say "sharing".'