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Unethical Defense to 1NT or variation

#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2011-September-25, 22:27

Does anyone have a link to a defense to 1NT based on bad ethics that goes something like:

Pass
Think then Pass
Ask Range then Pass
Double
Think then Double
Ask then Double

etc all showing different ranges.

I have seen something before but I haven't found it in a search.
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#2 User is offline   mrdct 

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Posted 2011-September-25, 22:38

View PostCascade, on 2011-September-25, 22:27, said:

Does anyone have a link to a defense to 1NT based on bad ethics that goes something like:

Pass
Think then Pass
Ask Range then Pass
Double
Think then Double
Ask then Double

etc all showing different ranges.

I have seen something before but I haven't found it in a search.

I too can't find a link to it anywhere but I'm quite sure that I've played against this defence before and it's quite hard to come up with a sensible counter-defence.
Disclaimer: The above post may be a half-baked sarcastic rant intended to stimulate discussion and it does not necessarily coincide with my own views on this topic.
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#3 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2011-September-25, 22:38

Modified Weasel?
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#4 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 02:47

I thought the "standard" defence to a weak NT was to think 1 second for every 3 hcp that you have...
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#5 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 04:29

View Postrbforster, on 2011-September-25, 22:38, said:

Modified Weasel?


This isn't quite it, because over 1NT, there are, as the OP mentioned, more options involving asking the range, at least in jurisdictions where the range is not announceable.

In this country the convention is known as the "French Defense".
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#6 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 05:22

View PostVampyr, on 2011-September-26, 04:29, said:

This isn't quite it, because over 1NT, there are, as the OP mentioned, more options involving asking the range, at least in jurisdictions where the range is not announceable.

In this country the convention is known as the "French Defense".


Indeed I have heard many countries insulted with the naming rights of this defense.

What I recall seeing but now cannot find is something like:

Pass 0-2
Slow Pass 3-5
Ask then Pass 6-8
Ask then Slow Pass 9-11
Double 12-14
Slow Double 15-17
Ask then Double 18-20
Ask then Slow Double 21-23

I guess you could add in Slow Ask to get even more precision.
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 06:38

It would be probably more efficient to add in heart length and four-point ranges ;)

For example, a very polite question (♥ ♥ ♥) could show a long heart suit.
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#8 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 06:39

View Postmrdct, on 2011-September-25, 22:38, said:

I too can't find a link to it anywhere but I'm quite sure that I've played against this defence before and it's quite hard to come up with a sensible counter-defence.


A sensible defense is easy to come up with.

If asked the range of the NT, replying instantly shows 15, clearing your throat and replying shows 16, saying "um" before replying shows 17, clearing your throat then "um" shows 15 with 4 spades, etc.

If not asked, responder can hesitate for a few seconds to show 0-5 HCP, can think for a while before passing to show 6-7, can examine the opponents convention card before passing to show a GF, etc.

Bridge is easy.

Edit, assuming the opener is asked his range. Switch stuff around if asking partner. You know what I mean.
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#9 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 09:51

Widen the point range add level of politness, a stutter and a cough. I think you could show your exact shape.
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#10 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 11:20

I assume that all of these defence variants, and counter-defences, are alertable?

Unfortunately, I think that these would be difficult to play effectively with screens...altho the throat-clearing, sniffing, coughing adjuncts might still work.
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#11 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 11:25

View Postmikeh, on 2011-September-26, 11:20, said:

I assume that all of these defence variants, and counter-defences, are alertable?

Unfortunately, I think that these would be difficult to play effectively with screens...altho the throat-clearing, sniffing, coughing adjuncts might still work.

You are forgetting the possibilities from foot-tapping Mike...
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#12 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 22:17

View Postjjbrr, on 2011-September-26, 06:39, said:

A sensible defense is easy to come up with.

If asked the range of the NT, replying instantly shows 15, clearing your throat and replying shows 16, saying "um" before replying shows 17, clearing your throat then "um" shows 15 with 4 spades, etc.

If not asked, responder can hesitate for a few seconds to show 0-5 HCP, can think for a while before passing to show 6-7, can examine the opponents convention card before passing to show a GF, etc.

Bridge is easy.

Edit, assuming the opener is asked his range. Switch stuff around if asking partner. You know what I mean.

These tactics can also be used in areas where NT ranges are announced.

#13 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 22:48

View PostCascade, on 2011-September-25, 22:27, said:

Does anyone have a link to a defense to 1NT based on bad ethics that goes something like:

Pass
Think then Pass
Ask Range then Pass
Double
Think then Double
Ask then Double

etc all showing different ranges.

I have seen something before but I haven't found it in a search.


Look up "Weasel". It also works well over a Precision Club.
(1C) thinks....Does that show Clubs? So it doesn't show Cs? ok 2C

There is also encrypted Weasel, similar to encrypted signals, but I am not sure if that is ACBL legal.
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#14 User is offline   Rossoneri 

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Posted 2011-September-26, 23:04

View PostVampyr, on 2011-September-26, 04:29, said:

In this country the convention is known as the "French Defense".


Named after the country or Marvin?
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#15 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-September-28, 10:09

I noticed on monday that you can also tap the bidding box before making your bid to get some MORSE across.
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#16 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-September-28, 11:47

View PostRossoneri, on 2011-September-26, 23:04, said:

Named after the country or Marvin?

Where are the Mods? Is it okay to defame a whole country, just one person, or both? :rolleyes:
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#17 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2011-September-29, 10:40

I've encountered the same sort of defence to weak 2's, although rather than range ask one would hear, back in the day when strong 2's were more common at the club, "is that weak or strong, honey?"

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#18 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2011-October-01, 13:40

Isn't responder supposed to answer? In that case if it goes 1NT (ask then dbl) then 12 - 14 then pass shows willingness to play there and um.. 12 - 14 asks partner to scramble.
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#19 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2011-October-04, 10:20

Another one that seems to be peculiar to the weak NT around here is:
1NT
(LHO reaches for the box)
"12-14"
(LHO pauses with her hand on the box)
...

still haven't figured out what it actually *means*.

Still like the Modified French Defence (the Quebec defence?): when they open 1NT, wait for the announcement. If it doesn't come, ask. Then start thinking about what I'm going to do. Not as effective as the original version, but gets the point across, and doesn't cause the above error.

Edit: And Cascade, you have the passes right, but the doubles are backwards. The immediate Double shows the nuts, the various stages of asking and delay show lower strength.
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#20 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-October-04, 10:57

View Postmycroft, on 2011-October-04, 10:20, said:

Another one that seems to be peculiar to the weak NT around here is:
1NT
(LHO reaches for the box)
"12-14"
(LHO pauses with her hand on the box)
...

still haven't figured out what it actually *means*.

The meaning is clear, on this one ---and relatively common if there was any delay in the range announcement. They have different defenses (or ranges of calls) vs. weak/strong; I sympathize with this one, but there is still UI if the action after the pause is from a different part of the box.

People still assume a 1NT bid has the common range for their turf in the absense of an announcement.
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