[BunnyGo]

This hand came up in a side game in Toronto at a BAM:

You hold:

Void, J987542, 983, JT8

R vs W.

RHO deals and bids 4S

(4S)-P-(P)-X
(P)-??

What now?

Edit: We play that this double shows points and is not takeout oriented (we are of course *allowed* to take it out)

This post has been edited by BunnyGo: 2011-July-26, 12:41

[dake50]

Key ask on the way to 5H.
Only 4 or 5 keys to 6H.

[inquiry]

dake50, on 2011-July-25, 21:42, said:

Key ask on the way to 5H.
Only 4 or 5 keys to 6H.

4NT is more commonly played as "two places" to play, not keycard ask. Hard to ask for keycards anyway with no agreed suit.

As to what to do, what is your agreement about double of 4♠. Mine is takeout (I play takeout doubles all the way, of course, I begin leaving them in more and more frequently as we get higher and higher). If your agreement is the double is penatly, opener may have a horrible spade split as indicated by your void. If takeout bidding 5♥ is easy. If your double is undefined, or do something intellegent, or the like, i aslo see bidding 5♥ as the winning option. So the only real problem is do you pull if your agreement is the double is penalty? I am thinking I would pull to 5♥ anyway, but I would be worried alot about this choiice even if it is only one board. I will try to bid 5♥ sounding confident (ok, ok, bidding boxes take that fun away) as we might get a swing at 5♠ anyway. Word of caution, i don't do all that well at B.A.M. so take this recommendation as for what it is worth.

I hope I was thinking about what to do over a reopening double the minute the stop card was shown on my right so that by the time the double came, I could make my bid in tempo.

[the hog]

dake50, on 2011-July-25, 21:42, said:

Key ask on the way to 5H.
Only 4 or 5 keys to 6H.

5H. Keycard ask? You are joking, yes?

[inquiry]

the hog, on 2011-July-25, 22:32, said:

5H. Keycard ask? You are joking, yes?

I think he said keycard ask "on the way" to 5♥. I assume he meant 4NT then stop in 5♥ if not enough keycards are held.

[Phil]

I would probably bid 5♥ at the table.

On a frequency standpoint, I would not be the least bit surprised if pass was the winning call at BAM or MPs.

[aguahombre]

On a frequency standpoint, I would not be surprised if whatever I did was wrong. But, will try 5H because I think the other table will do that, too. And yes, the double is takeout-ish, but frequently left in. Removing should be constructive with length; I have the length, anyway.

[whereagles]

Seems like an easy 5♥.

[daveharty]

Hope this double isn't what one of my partners used to call a "fast food double"--"Take it out or eat it here."

5H.

[aguahombre]

daveharty, on 2011-July-26, 09:24, said:

Hope this double isn't what one of my partners used to call a "fast food double"--"Take it out or eat it here."

5H.

If that partner was trying to describe "convertable values" doubles, then that is exactly what I expect this double was. Pure penalty spade stacks do just have to "eat it here" with a pass, and a pure-shape takeout double --though possible--is not the most likely.

None of that changes my choice of 5H

[BunnyGo]

5H would have been the winning bid. It only goes down 1 (as opposed to 5SX= at the other table). The 4S bidder (of course) had 8 spades, heart void and a 15 HCP hand (not counting the void) with good controls. My partner had Qxxx, AKQ, xxx, Axxx. I (of course) left the double in.

[daveharty]

aguahombre, on 2011-July-26, 09:55, said:

If that partner was trying to describe "convertable values" doubles, then that is exactly what I expect this double was. Pure penalty spade stacks do just have to "eat it here" with a pass, and a pure-shape takeout double --though possible--is not the most likely.

No, partner was just trying to be clever by saying "You're screwed already, so take it out (to the tune of -800) or eat it here (to the tune of -590). Have a nice day."

[dake50]

If you all play KeyCardAsking,
what is the "agreed" suit among three available?
I always "agree" the unbid major,
hearts if both majors might be ours.
Do you agree no "agreed" suit, so straight A-ask?
Or a default "agreed" as I suggest?

[BunnyGo]

dake50, on 2011-July-26, 16:45, said:

If you all play KeyCardAsking,
what is the "agreed" suit among three available?
I always "agree" the unbid major,
hearts if both majors might be ours.
Do you agree no "agreed" suit, so straight A-ask?
Or a default "agreed" as I suggest?

Most people do not play that 4NT is any key card bid on this auction. It would simply be a "two or more places to play" bid asking partner to pick a suit.