[the_dude]

IMPs

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If so, with what?

[semeai]

I voted 3♠, but wonder about double, correcting 3♥ to 3♠. What does that show by a passed hand? Does it guarantee 5 spades?

It would be nice to open this hand, but I wouldn't playing your typical 2/1 or standard american.

[VM1973]

No bid.

[jh51]

The OP says this is IMPs. I may be wrong, but I kind doubt we have game, so I pass. West can have a decent hand with no game prospects, and an action by me may lead to a big penalty. If I am wrong, it costs us a few IMPs. If I am right, it may save us a bunch of IMPs.

[Foxx]

jh51, on 2011-July-21, 09:47, said:

and an action by me may lead to a big penalty.

Which is exactly why I'm doubling....

[whereagles]

semeai, on 2011-July-21, 08:30, said:

I voted 3♠, but wonder about double, correcting 3♥ to 3♠. What does that show by a passed hand? Does it guarantee 5 spades?

Given we're a passed hand, that sounds like a good strategy. Bloody hell we sure got 5 spades for it

[gnasher]

Double looks normal.

[andy_h]

Yes I double.

[mfa1010]

Also double.

[semeai]

whereagles, on 2011-July-22, 02:23, said:

Given we're a passed hand, that sounds like a good strategy. Bloody hell we sure got 5 spades for it

Not ever 4-2-2-5?

I suppose that hand would always pass at this level. Maybe it's a better question over 2♦.

[ArtK78]

semeai, on 2011-July-22, 06:32, said:

Not ever 4-2-2-5?

I suppose that hand would always pass at this level. Maybe it's a better question over 2♦.

The nice thing about double as a passed hand on the hand posted in the OP is that it gives you options - if partner has the penalty pass you get them, and, if not, you are able to show your spades. Reopening with 3♠ doesn't give you the option of penalizing them.

With the 4-2-2-5 hand it is too dangerous to act. If partner bids 3♥, you don't have a safe out at the 3 level (not to say that 3♠ is "safe," but it is better than 4♣).

[gnasher]

If you choose to double with a 4225 after pass-2♦-pass-pass, and you don't now want to pass 2♥, you should convert to 3♣ (or possibly 2NT). That loses when you could make exactly 2♠, but ensures that you don't play a 4-2 fit.

But I don't think you should double with that hand-type anyway - if you can't bring yourself to pass, maybe you should have opened the bidding instead.

[bill1157]

I might have opened 2♠...

[semeai]

ArtK78, on 2011-July-22, 06:54, said:

The nice thing about double as a passed hand on the hand posted in the OP is that it gives you options - if partner has the penalty pass you get them, and, if not, you are able to show your spades. Reopening with 3♠ doesn't give you the option of penalizing them.

gnasher, on 2011-July-22, 07:11, said:

If you choose to double with a 4225 after pass-2♦-pass-pass, and you don't now want to pass 2♥, you should convert to 3♣ (or possibly 2NT). That loses when you could make exactly 2♠, but ensures that you don't play a 4-2 fit.

One could play that conversion to 2S over P-2D-P-P;X-P-2H shows 4♠, longer clubs, and that you just bid with hands with a 5 card spade suit and takeout shape instead of offering the penalty first. I wonder if this is best at the 2-level (or 1-level). You run the risk of partner jumping in hearts, of course, so maybe best just to pass these hands as gnasher suggests.

I will agree, however, that what Art says about the allowing the penalty pass is likely best at the 3-level. I was worried about my X-3♥;3♠ being taken properly, but it appears it would be.

[VM1973]

I'm surprised so many people are doubling. I'd like to see one of those 1,000 hand deals to see how double works out.