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Which is the least destructive lie?

#1 User is offline   humilities 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 13:22

IMPs


Seems definitely wrong to pass .. 2♦ seems wrong. Do we just suck it up and bid 3♦ all the while praying partner doesn't take a phantom sacrifice?
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#2 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 13:26

If you are playing 2/1, then you have a forcing 1NT bid. You can pass his (likely) 2H rebid, but if he rebids a minor, you'll be well off.

Edit: thanks to Jilly for pointing out that I again misread the auction. I'd bid 3♦.

This post has been edited by BunnyGo: 2011-June-26, 16:13

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#3 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 13:35

View Posthumilities, on 2011-June-26, 13:22, said:

Seems definitely wrong to pass .. 2♦ seems wrong. Do we just suck it up and bid 3♦ all the while praying partner doesn't take a phantom sacrifice?


3♦ is a perfectly normal bid, and if partner can buy it in 5♦x I will get the feeling that this is going to be a good board.
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#4 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 13:42

By the way, you are white vs. red and partner is a passed hand. If anything, you are looking for the most destructive bid, not the least destructive one. Marty Bergen might bid 4♦.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#5 User is offline   jmcw 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 13:43

View Posthumilities, on 2011-June-26, 13:22, said:

IMPs


Seems definitely wrong to pass .. 2♦ seems wrong. Do we just suck it up and bid 3♦ all the while praying partner doesn't take a phantom sacrifice?


With this collection of garbage, I'm surprised you want to do anything other than pass
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#6 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 13:48

View Postjmcw, on 2011-June-26, 13:43, said:

With this collection of garbage, I'm surprised you want to do anything other than pass


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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 14:41

Actually, 2♦ is pretty adequate. It takes LHO's useful responses of 1♠, 1NT, 2♣ while keeping you at an acceptable low level. And if LHO bids hearts, pard will be in a good position to know what to do.
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#8 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 15:05

I would never bid 2D with this hand. At these colours it is 3D. The other alternative is to pass, and I don't mind that either.
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#9 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 15:48

View PostBunnyGo, on 2011-June-26, 13:26, said:

If you are playing 2/1, then you have a forcing 1NT bid. You can pass his (likely) 2H rebid, but if he rebids a minor, you'll be well off.

You are not sitting opposite the 1♥ opener.
Pass or 3♦ if I am feeling frisky.
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#10 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 17:26

2♦.

3♦ is a bit much for me but maybe I am getting old. The hand doesn't look much like a typical 2♦ bid but I think it will often work out ok and I don't want to pass. Given the vulnerability we need to be in the auction with this much shape and may not get another chance.
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#11 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 18:25

I don't think either of pass, 2♦ or 3♦ is bad, but in practice I would never think of passing and would quickly dismiss 2♦. Change a few cards and I will change to pass or 2♦.

Phantom sacrifice?! I have a void in hearts so if partner bids 5♦ over 4♥ I will be happy happy happy.
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#12 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 19:46

View Postgwnn, on 2011-June-26, 18:25, said:

Phantom sacrifice?! I have a void in hearts so if partner bids 5♦ over 4♥ I will be happy happy happy.


I agree. 3♦ seems normal to me but I have a sneaky liking for the admittedly off-beat 2♦ bid.

If we have a profitable dive it could be in ♣ or even ♠ on occasion and sounding tough on the way is appealing.
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#13 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 02:56

Hi,

the choice between 2D and 3D is primaitly a tactical decision,
and how much p will give you leeway, if he is a passed hand.
If he expects full values for a 2D overcall, than 2D is out.

The main trouble with 3D is, that your suit is not particular
good, ... nothing to worry a lot about, but well ...

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#14 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 03:04

oh yes and double can be also right, for example if clubs are good and diamonds are like this and we're unfavourable.
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#15 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 03:26

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-June-26, 14:41, said:

Actually, 2♦ is pretty adequate. It takes LHO's useful responses of 1♠, 1NT, 2♣ while keeping you at an acceptable low level. And if LHO bids hearts, pard will be in a good position to know what to do.

I don't think he'd be in a good position to know what to do, because he'd expect me to have more in the way of high cards.
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#16 User is offline   jschafer 

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Posted 2011-June-28, 06:06

What does 2♦ accomplish which 3♦ doesn't? Partner is a passed hand and in the unlikely event you have game he will raise both 2♦ or 3♦. The more likely scenario is that the opps have game and/or a ♥ fit, in which case I would want to take up as much space as possible and make their constructive bidding tougher. Not only does 3♦ get the nature of your hand accross in one bid (preemptive) while consuming bidding space, it saves you the embarassment when partner doubles their making game when you overcalled a light 2♦ (or maybe he decides not to sacrifice expecting 4♥ to go down). The whole point of bidding is to bid your hand as accurately as possible in as few bids as possible while denying the opponents the opportunity to do the same. In that respect 3♦ is better, especially when it looks like the opponents have a game in ♥s and the vulnerability is favourable. At least that is my excuse when I overbid with my preempts :P
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#17 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-June-28, 06:11

3♦ and pass are acceptable, I prefer 3♦. I don't see the point in bidding 2♦.
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