[benlessard]

The way i see it is that partner has 4 reason for bidding 2Nt rather than Xing.

1 hes got short spades.

2- hes got 2 stoppers in H

3- hes max (19pts for me) with 1 H stopper and hes afraid of X and raising S on 3 cards.

4- hes short in a m.

In frequency order from most to least i think its 1243.

If your preempt have a low requirement any 6 cards suit/ great 5 is possible than the way i like to play my X is that partner pass with every 1/2/3 and bid 4S with case 4. It also permit 4S to be 5-5 or 5044 by passed hand. People play their takeout X just too much takeout and not enough penalty often its pointless to make takeout for multiple strains when only the majors matters.

On this hand i would be very disappointed to be in 4S instead of 4Hx. Reaching 5D is not a consolation.

If we are red or have high requirement for a preempt than our 4S should be a suit playable vs a doubleton. Since the case where partner has 3S its because hes got a double stopper in H. Wich make defending more interesting.

[benlessard]

Also am i the only one to play that over a take out X partner has only 2 options here pass or 4s ?

[gnasher]

benlessard, on 2011-June-09, 17:40, said:

Also am i the only one to play that over a take out X partner has only 2 options here pass or 4s ?

If I think you're not playing it as a "takeout double".

Partner won't often do anything else, but I'd expect him to bid 4NT with 22(54), or bid a six-card minor if he's got one. Something like KQx Axx xx AQ109x should probably bid too.

[benlessard]

gnasher, on 2011-June-10, 01:31, said:

If I think you're not playing it as a "takeout double".

Partner won't often do anything else, but I'd expect him to bid 4NT with 22(54), or bid a six-card minor if he's got one. Something like KQx Axx xx AQ109x should probably bid too.

With these kind of hands why do you want to play 5m rather than 4Hx ? In the long run it doesnt pay to play 5m on 18-19 LOTT. (+ in the 2nd example here you have pure H holding but most of the time its going to be a soft holding wich mean 5m rate to be terrible). The same way over a 4D preempt i much prefer that my take out X is both M and partner is 100% on his own if he bid clubs. You sacrifice a suit but gain more flexibility and avoid some stupid result, it simply maximize my chance to play 4Dx , 4M in the right suit at the cost of not playing 5C.


At one point you have to decide that the X are take out but only for the unbid M.

(3red)-p-(5red)-X to see partner bid 6C is simply a joke.

For me the 4 level is perfect for that when my partner shape is somewhat limited.

[gnasher]

benlessard, on 2011-June-10, 21:45, said:

With these kind of hands why do you want to play 5m rather than 4Hx ? In the long run it doesnt pay to play 5m on 18-19 LOTT.

I'd want to play 5m because my double is more takeout-oriented than yours. Opposite the sort of hands on which I would make a takeout double, it's likely to be best for opener to bid when he has an offensively-oriented hand.

Sorry, I can't comment on the LOTT argument, because I don't understand LOTT. (Or to be precise, I don't understand people who use the LOTT.)

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(+ in the 2nd example here you have pure H holding but most of the time its going to be a soft holding wich mean 5m rate to be terrible).

I didn't say you should bid 5♣ with a 3325 and soft heart holding. I said you should probably bid 5♣ with KQx Axx xx AQ109x.

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At one point you have to decide that the X are take out but only for the unbid M.

(3red)-p-(5red)-X to see partner bid 6C is simply a joke.

I don't play takeout doubles as giving instructions - I use them to describe my hand. When I double in this sequence, it says that I have a good hand, usually with short hearts, and usually with some support for all the unbid suits. If partner thinks that opposite that he can make twelve tricks in clubs, he's welcome to say so.